That's back on topic? You've already stated that and I've agreed with you. The poster was looking for a cheap commercial machine. This is an expensive top-tier espresso machine.......
Bgosselin Senior Member Joined: 26 Jul 2012 Posts: 51 Location: Canada,quebec Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Fri Oct 12, 2012, 7:52pm Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Looking to buy our first commercial machine - advice needed
Didn't want to offend you. I was just trying to make the point that some of the budget for decoration could be directed at a better looking machine. Chairs, tables, extra furnitures can also be expensive. Reducing the budget on those could free extra cash.
The poster is from Bath UK. A very high tourist spot. If he want to get tourists in, the look of the coffee shop is important. Detail on the clientel he wants to serve is not specify. Who knows what he can go for.
They most be a lot of second hand espresso machine for sale also. It may be a alternative solution.
Something coffee sellers would finance the machine if you commit to buy coffee from them.
Jjprestidge Senior Member Joined: 9 Oct 2012 Posts: 9 Location: Bath UK Expertise: Just starting
Posted Tue Oct 16, 2012, 1:55pm Subject: Re: Looking to buy our first commercial machine - advice needed
The coffee shop won't be in Bath - the market is saturated and rents are very high.
The Mirage is well out of budget, unless I could lease one.
I've been offered an LM FB80 to rent, but am not sure whether it would be better to buy a cheaper machine outright. Leasing has some tax advantages, but most deals are quite long term.
Posted Tue Oct 16, 2012, 3:40pm Subject: Re: Looking to buy our first commercial machine - advice needed
It seems to me as if you're pulling in two different directions here. In less expensive commercial machines, thermal stability seems to largely come from having sufficient thermal mass that the normal fluctuations of boiler/HX/steam draw, etc. can't have an effect (or, at least, have a very minimal one). That very stability undermines the ability to quickly change temperature to suit different coffees. Better to have two single group machines, each dedicated to a different coffee, or have a two-group for the main coffee and a single group (perhaps a lever for the show of it) for the "experimental" coffee.
Of course, if you (and whoever else is pulling shots) have the barista chops finely honed, you can control temperature with flushes, etc., but that would be virtually impossible during any sort of rush period, as it takes more time and attention than a line of customers a dozen deep can put up with.
Frankly, being in the UK, I'd look to the Fracino levers, with the sheer theater of the lever machine being part of the draw of the cafe, plus the ability to work some pressure profiling with lever manipulation. Between that and careful coffee selection, you could create quite the niche for yourself. But that's just one man's opinion (and a man who's never worked behind the counter as a barista, so take it for whatever you think it's worth).
Bgosselin Senior Member Joined: 26 Jul 2012 Posts: 51 Location: Canada,quebec Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Tue Oct 16, 2012, 5:03pm Subject: Re: Looking to buy our first commercial machine - advice needed
One big advantage of leasing is that you can get service. One of them could be a quick replacement machine if the one you have doesn't work. Not sur if that is important for you.
Is serving coffee the main purpose of your commerce or just a nice to have?
I think if you want your coffee shop known for it coffee quality you need to make sure you have a good machine and excellent coffee. Best thing will be to have a local roaster.
Getting the best coffee could force you to buy used if the roaster doesn't provide leasing. Having fresh coffee could be a trademark and win some customers.
But if you serve food and your food is what get customer in. Having good coffee instead of very very good coffee could be enough. Then go for the coffee provider that give you the best advantages.
Jjprestidge Senior Member Joined: 9 Oct 2012 Posts: 9 Location: Bath UK Expertise: Just starting
Posted Wed Oct 17, 2012, 5:50am Subject: Re: Looking to buy our first commercial machine - advice needed
The G10 has the ability to run each group at a different temperature. What I'm interested in is how effectively it does this, as I would have to pay much more for a big name machine with the same functionality.
Posted Wed Oct 17, 2012, 7:41am Subject: Re: Looking to buy our first commercial machine - advice needed
I'm finding two different descriptions of the G10 on the web - one that says each group has a separate 1.5L boiler that's fed by prewarmed water from the 17.5L boiler, and one (which is the current desctiption from the Australian website) that each group has a separate 450ml heat exchanger. So the questions I would be asking are 1) Which is correct for the specific machine you're looking at? 2)What was the reason for the change? 3)Which is more current?
You might try asking on coffeesnobs.au to see who might have more direct experience with the G10 there. More info never hurts.
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