qualin Senior Member Joined: 30 Jun 2012 Posts: 464 Location: Calgary, AB Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3 Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A Vac Pot: Looking to buy Drip: Manual Roaster: Considering?
Posted Sat Oct 6, 2012, 1:23pm Subject: Magister ES40/MS40 Machines
A local espresso equipment supplier here is selling Magister ES40 (Automatic) and Magister MS40 (Semi-Automatic) machines as well as the Magister Stella. They're all fairly the same as far as featureset is concerned. The Stella has a E61 group, but the others don't. They're all HX machines with a vibe pump. Other than that, I can't find any information on the net about these machines, except for what is in the brochure they supplied to me. All of the machines look like they use a pressure stat and they only have a boiler pressure gauge. They all have a one year manufacturers warranty with no option of extension.
It was mentioned to me that one of the members of the Rancilio family split off and started their own company, Magister, so there is a lot of the quality of a Rancilio in these machines. I seriously doubt that these are just re-badged Rancilio machines. One of the employees even mentioned to me that the quality of one of these machines was superior to that of Rancilio Epoca.
The machines are selling for roughly $2300 for the MS40 and $2700 for the ES40.
From what I've learned, both of these machines come in a pourover and plumbed in models. However, if I purchased a pourover model, it can be later adapted for plumb-in for about $200 if I wish.
These machines are appealing to me in that they're compact (They'll fit on my counter) and that I can get service and support from a local dealer instead of having to drive it to Edmonton or ship it off to Milton, Ontario for service. What has me scratching my head is why these machines are just as expensive as double boiler machines or machines which have considerably more features.
Judging from the price vs feature set, My guess is that these machines are probably built as well as a La Cimbali Junior DT, but I would like opinions and experiences. I haven't been able to find much online about these machines from people who have owned them. There doesn't appear to be any reviews on this site regarding Magister machines.
Are these machines worth the added expense? Would I be paying for quality over features?
Another supplier here does sell Izzo, but they're nearly $1000 more than everyone else. ($3000 for the Alex 2 PID and $3700 for the Alex Duetto II.)
Please keep in mind that I'm located in Calgary, Alberta so I've been using Caffetech and Idrinkcoffee as a comparison to them. For me, what matters more is quality under the hood and not so much in the way of features, although it is a nice to have. It doesn't make much sense to me to buy an HX machine for the price of a DB, unless I know that I'm getting quality and longevity. (Hence my comparison to the La Cimbali.)
CoffeeMills Senior Member Joined: 21 Feb 2012 Posts: 32 Location: USA, Canada Expertise: Professional
Espresso: la Pavoni Professional Grinder: Mazzer Mini Drip: Gravity Cone Roaster: 49TH //
Posted Sun Oct 7, 2012, 9:35am Subject: Re: Magister ES40/MS40 Machines
Thought I'd some info. Magister makes high quality machines. Costco used to carry these units 10 years ago. EK, K, ES and other models. Very compact, reliable machines used in cafes, bakeries, company break rooms, ....... I've installed and serviced dozens in California that are still in operation today. The hardware requires a Magister Key, yet all threading is metric for screws. All internal parts are commercial and easy to find. If I had the money, I'd buy a few different models for my family in Vancouver.
"Bad" news: I know of no one who owns one, or has used one; there are no consumer reviews in the CoffeeGeek database. (It's not really bad news, merely "bad" as in a lack of data. It may be a great machine, but -- who knows?)
Never guess. Seriously. With the dearth of information on Magister, I'd be very hesitant to guess anything.
For me, what matters more is quality under the hood and not so much in the way of features, although it is a nice to have. It doesn't make much sense to me to buy an HX machine for the price of a DB, unless I know that I'm getting quality and longevity. (Hence my comparison to the La Cimbali.)
There is no difference in the cup between an HX and a DB. Keep in mind the biggest variable is the 4th M -- "mano," as in the hand of the barista, and that's you! As a newbie, it probably is easier to have a DB, but remember that each type of machine has its advantages and disadvantages -- in part, it depends upon how "serious" you want to be in this hobby of ours. I have no desire -- none! -- to switch from my HX to a DB. But were I moving up from my old Coffee Gaggia to my first prosumer machine today, I might go the DB route, who knows? That said, the Cimbali Junior DT is one of the best-built machines around. TTBOMK, some come close, but none surpass it.
It isn't encouraging when a company called "Magister Espresso Canada" isn't selling any Magister equipment on their website. That's like walking into a Ford dealership and finding only cars made by Toyota. Suddenly, red flags are going up now. Then again, there is also a Faema Canada which doesn't sell any Faema machines either. Go figure. It's understandable considering that Faema was bought out. I go to Faema Canada's website and all that's there is Jura.
I know of no one who owns one, or has used one; there are no consumer reviews in the CoffeeGeek database.
That's why I started the thread. I keep wondering what makes these machines so special in comparison to their direct competition and was hoping that there were people out there with practical experience with these machines. The fact that there is a considerable lack of information out there really raises a red flag for me.
To put that into perspective, look at Astra and La Salvatore. Both are American sourced espresso machine manufacturers I've never heard of. I recently saw someone selling their La Salvatore machine on the forums, it looks nice. However, my concern is about the supportability and maintainability of the machine. If nobody has one, who do you turn to if you have problems? The shop that sold it to you, obviously... The fact they use generic parts is encouraging though.
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,099 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Sun Oct 7, 2012, 10:40pm Subject: Re: Magister ES40/MS40 Machines
. . . look at Astra and La Salvatore. Both are American sourced espresso machine manufacturers I've never heard of. I recently saw someone selling their La Salvatore machine on the forums, it looks nice.
Here we go. Thank you for the lookups. I think out of all of them, La Spaziale is the oldest, having been around since 1969. Rocket used to be ECM, but there is also a German ECM out there, which adds to the confusion a little. Izzo has been making machines since 1995, so they're newer to the market. Magister appears to have been around since 1997.
Out of all of these machines, for slightly less money, one gets: - Double Boiler instead of HX - Rotary Pump in all of these, as opposed to vibratory pump - Ability to plumb-in, while allowing to switch between tank and line. (Only for the Rocket & Izzo) - All have solid state PID control instead of mechanical pressurestat for better reliability - All of these machines are well known in this community. - E61 group, except for the La Spaziale, which is volumetric saturated. (I think)
I just don't really see how Magister can compete with all of these manufacturers. Click Here (www.magistersistemacaffe.it) They also make dishwashers, panini grills and iceboxes. Their coffee grinders look like a rebadged Mazzer.
the Cimbali Junior DT is one of the best-built machines around.
I found out that these machines sell for $3700 in Canada, about $600 more than what Americans pay... So perhaps I should shut my mouth about them now! I only used the Cimbali as a comparison because feature-wise it doesn't seem like you are getting a lot, but what you don't see on the outside is what you are getting on the inside when it comes to quality and engineering, hence the price.
I'm a very practical person. I'll look at the featureset, evaluate the quality which goes into the machine and then determine how the pricing of the machine compares to everything else on the market. We're not buying $3000 "vacuum cleaning systems" here. (I've had two door to door sales reps try and sell me one.) There is a lot of competition in this market and the pricing should reflect that.
I realize that there are a lot of lesser known manufacturers out there, like La Scala, but even they have a review on the Coffeegeek site. The last thing I want to do is buy a "new" machine from a manufacturer which is out of business!
Searching for "Magister" gets 161 posts. Not encouraging.
I like the idea of buying from an American manufacturer, but I don't like how Salvatore machines lack a vacuum breaker and the Astra Gourmet machines are too large for my counter. (Width wise they are OK, depth wise they're too deep!)
I'd certainly get a machine that others have also owned and liked . . . .
Magister machines are ok, but the MS40 is not better than, say a BZ99. They're quite hot and need to be equipped with a smal throttle/gigleur in the thermosyphon. The pressurestat is built in not standing, but hanging 90 degree turned and has to be replaced more often than in other machines. The brew head is the Rancilio TS brew head (not the Epoca one) and works quite well.
I sold some Stella and MS40 and would set the MS40 quite next to a BZ99. So the price should not be too far from a BZ99's price.
Symbols: = New Posts since your last visit = No New Posts since last visit = Newest post
Forum Rules: No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards. No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum. No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum. Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards. Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics. Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies. Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies. Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts. Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.