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Magister ES40/MS40 Machines
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Magister...  
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qualin
Senior Member
qualin
Joined: 30 Jun 2012
Posts: 649
Location: Calgary, AB
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3
Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A
Vac Pot: Looking to buy
Drip: Manual
Roaster: Considering?
Posted Sat Oct 6, 2012, 1:23pm
Subject: Magister ES40/MS40 Machines
 

Hello.

A local espresso equipment supplier here is selling Magister ES40 (Automatic) and Magister MS40 (Semi-Automatic) machines as well as the Magister Stella.
They're all fairly the same as far as featureset is concerned. The Stella has a E61 group, but the others don't. They're all HX machines with a vibe pump.
Other than that, I can't find any information on the net about these machines, except for what is in the brochure they supplied to me. All of the machines
look like they use a pressure stat and they only have a boiler pressure gauge. They all have a one year manufacturers warranty with no option of extension.

It was mentioned to me that one of the members of the Rancilio family split off and started their own company, Magister, so there is a lot of the
quality of a Rancilio in these machines. I seriously doubt that these are just re-badged Rancilio machines. One of the employees even mentioned to me
that the quality of one of these machines was superior to that of Rancilio Epoca.

Here is the brochure for these machines:

http://i.imgur.com/DMMRP.jpg  (Front)
http://i.imgur.com/pXKeX.jpg  (Back)

The machines are selling for roughly $2300 for the MS40 and $2700 for the ES40.

From what I've learned, both of these machines come in a pourover and plumbed in models. However, if I purchased a pourover model,
it can be later adapted for plumb-in for about $200 if I wish.

These machines are appealing to me in that they're compact (They'll fit on my counter) and that I can get service and support from a local
dealer instead of having to drive it to Edmonton or ship it off to Milton, Ontario for service. What has me scratching my head is why these
machines are just as expensive as double boiler machines or machines which have considerably more features.

Judging from the price vs feature set,  My guess is that these machines are probably built as well as a La Cimbali Junior DT, but I would
like opinions and experiences. I haven't been able to find much online about these machines from people who have owned them. There doesn't
appear to be any reviews on this site regarding Magister machines.

Are these machines worth the added expense? Would I be paying for quality over features?

Another supplier here does sell Izzo, but they're nearly $1000 more than everyone else. ($3000 for the Alex 2 PID and $3700 for the Alex Duetto II.)

Please keep in mind that I'm located in Calgary, Alberta so I've been using Caffetech and Idrinkcoffee as a comparison to them. For me, what matters
more is quality under the hood and not so much in the way of features, although it is a nice to have. It doesn't make much sense to me to buy an
HX machine for the price of a DB, unless I know that I'm getting quality and longevity. (Hence my comparison to the La Cimbali.)

Thanks everyone.

 
Garbage In, Garbage Out, for every step of the process. From Beans to grinder, grounds to machine, coffee to cup.
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CoffeeMills
Senior Member
CoffeeMills
Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Posts: 32
Location: USA, Canada
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: la Pavoni Professional
Grinder: Mazzer Mini
Drip: Gravity Cone
Roaster: 49TH  //
Posted Sun Oct 7, 2012, 9:35am
Subject: Re: Magister ES40/MS40 Machines
 

Hi,

Thought I'd some info.
Magister makes high quality machines.  Costco used to carry these units 10 years ago. EK, K, ES and other models.  
Very compact, reliable machines used in cafes, bakeries, company break rooms, .......
I've installed and serviced dozens in California that are still in operation today.  The hardware requires a Magister Key, yet all threading is metric for screws.  
All internal parts are commercial and easy to find.  If I had the money, I'd buy a few different models for my family in Vancouver.

Cheers

CoffeeMills: Magister_ES_Stilo_1_Group_ES_60_v0.jpg_200x200.jpg

 
Coffee Mills
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JasonBrandtLewis
Senior Member
JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,368
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Sun Oct 7, 2012, 10:26am
Subject: Re: Magister ES40/MS40 Machines
 

Good news:  there is a company in Montreal -- Magister Espresso Canada, Inc. -- that imports the machines and parts.

"Bad" news:  I know of no one who owns one, or has used one; there are no consumer reviews in the CoffeeGeek database.  (It's not really bad news, merely "bad" as in a lack of data.  It may be a great machine, but -- who knows?)

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
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JasonBrandtLewis
Senior Member
JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,368
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Sun Oct 7, 2012, 10:57am
Subject: Re: Magister ES40/MS40 Machines
 

Random thoughts . . .

qualin Said:

The (Magister) machines are selling for roughly $2300 for the MS40 and $2700 for the ES40.

Posted October 6, 2012 link


And the Rocket R58 is $2,695 CDN at one vendor and -- wait for it -- $2,695 CDN from another vendor . . .

qualin Said:

Another supplier here does sell Izzo, but they're nearly $1000 more than everyone else. ($3000 for the Alex 2 PID and $3700 for the Alex Duetto II.)

Posted October 6, 2012 link

I'm not sure where you're looking, but I found the Izzo Alex Duetto II for $2,595 CDN.

And, in terms of reliability, I wouldn't overlook the La Spaziale Vivaldi II for $2,399.95, but remember that it is plumb-in ONLY.

qualin Said:

Judging from the price vs feature set,  My guess is that these machines are probably built as well as a La Cimbali Junior DT, but I would
like opinions and experiences.

Posted October 6, 2012 link

Never guess.  Seriously.  With the dearth of information on Magister, I'd be very hesitant to guess anything.

qualin Said:

For me, what matters more is quality under the hood and not so much in the way of features, although it is a nice to have. It doesn't make much sense to me to buy an HX machine for the price of a DB, unless I know that I'm getting quality and longevity. (Hence my comparison to the La Cimbali.)

Posted October 6, 2012 link

There is no difference in the cup between an HX and a DB.  Keep in mind the biggest variable is the 4th M -- "mano," as in the hand of the barista, and that's you!  As a newbie, it probably is easier to have a DB, but remember that each type of machine has its advantages and disadvantages -- in part, it depends upon how "serious" you want to be in this hobby of ours.  I have no desire -- none! -- to switch from my HX to a DB.  But were I moving up from my old Coffee Gaggia to my first prosumer machine today, I might go the DB route, who knows?  That said, the Cimbali Junior DT is one of the best-built machines around.  TTBOMK, some come close, but none surpass it.

Cheers,
Jason

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
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qualin
Senior Member
qualin
Joined: 30 Jun 2012
Posts: 649
Location: Calgary, AB
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3
Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A
Vac Pot: Looking to buy
Drip: Manual
Roaster: Considering?
Posted Sun Oct 7, 2012, 9:29pm
Subject: Re: Magister ES40/MS40 Machines
 

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

Good news:  there is a company in Montreal -- Magister Espresso Canada, Inc. -- that imports the machines and parts.

Posted October 7, 2012 link

It isn't encouraging when a company called "Magister Espresso Canada" isn't selling any Magister equipment on their website. That's like walking into a Ford
dealership and finding only cars made by Toyota. Suddenly, red flags are going up now. Then again, there is also a Faema Canada which doesn't sell any
Faema machines either. Go figure. It's understandable considering that Faema was bought out. I go to Faema Canada's website and all that's there is Jura.

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

I know of no one who owns one, or has used one; there are no consumer reviews in the CoffeeGeek database.

Posted October 7, 2012 link

That's why I started the thread. I keep wondering what makes these machines so special in comparison to their direct competition and was hoping that there
were people out there with practical experience with these machines. The fact that there is a considerable lack of information out there really raises a red flag for me.

To put that into perspective, look at Astra and La Salvatore. Both are American sourced espresso machine manufacturers I've never heard of. I recently saw someone
selling their La Salvatore machine on the forums, it looks nice. However, my concern is about the supportability and maintainability of the machine. If nobody has one,
who do you turn to if you have problems? The shop that sold it to you, obviously... The fact they use generic parts is encouraging though.

 
Garbage In, Garbage Out, for every step of the process. From Beans to grinder, grounds to machine, coffee to cup.
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JasonBrandtLewis
Senior Member
JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,368
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Sun Oct 7, 2012, 10:40pm
Subject: Re: Magister ES40/MS40 Machines
 

qualin Said:

. . . look at Astra and La Salvatore. Both are American sourced espresso machine manufacturers I've never heard of. I recently saw someone
selling their La Salvatore machine on the forums, it looks nice.

Posted October 7, 2012 link

The difference is that both Astra  and Salvatore have reviews in the consumer forum -- Astra has 12; Salvatore, 5 -- and there are any number of threads both here and on Home-Barista.  

CoffeeGeek:  Search "Astra" in the Discussion Forums, and you come up with 1,672 posts.  Search "Salvatore" in the Discussion Forums, and you get 1,267 posts.  

Home-Barista:  "Astra" has 305 posts; Salvatore, 512 posts . . .

Also, Salvatore Espresso Machines, based in Solvang, California, come with a 6-year warranty.  And Astra machines are manufactured in Los Angeles.

Now, all that aside -- because I don't know if they are available in Canada -- were I in your shoes, I'd certainly get a machine that others have also owned and liked . . . .

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
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qualin
Senior Member
qualin
Joined: 30 Jun 2012
Posts: 649
Location: Calgary, AB
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3
Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A
Vac Pot: Looking to buy
Drip: Manual
Roaster: Considering?
Posted Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:06pm
Subject: Re: Magister ES40/MS40 Machines
 

]

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

And the Rocket R58 is $2,695 CDN at one vendor... Izzo Alex Duetto II for $2,595 CDN ... La Spaziale Vivaldi II for $2,399.95.

Posted October 7, 2012 link

Here we go. Thank you for the lookups. I think out of all of them, La Spaziale is the oldest, having been around since 1969. Rocket used to be ECM, but there is also a German ECM out there,
which adds to the confusion a little. Izzo has been making machines since 1995, so they're newer to the market. Magister appears to have been around since 1997.

Out of all of these machines, for slightly less money, one gets:
- Double Boiler instead of HX
- Rotary Pump in all of these, as opposed to vibratory pump
- Ability to plumb-in, while allowing to switch between tank and line. (Only for the Rocket & Izzo)
- All have solid state PID control instead of mechanical pressurestat for better reliability
- All of these machines are well known in this community.
- E61 group, except for the La Spaziale, which is volumetric saturated. (I think)

I just don't really see how Magister can compete with all of these manufacturers.
Click Here (www.magistersistemacaffe.it)
They also make dishwashers, panini grills and iceboxes. Their coffee grinders look like a rebadged Mazzer.

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

the Cimbali Junior DT is one of the best-built machines around.

Posted October 7, 2012 link

I found out that these machines sell for $3700 in Canada, about $600 more than what Americans pay... So perhaps I should shut my mouth about them now!
I only used the Cimbali as a comparison because feature-wise it doesn't seem like you are getting a lot, but what you don't see on the outside is what you
are getting on the inside when it comes to quality and engineering, hence the price.

I'm a very practical person. I'll look at the featureset, evaluate the quality which goes into the machine and then determine how the pricing of the machine
compares to everything else on the market. We're not buying $3000 "vacuum cleaning systems" here. (I've had two door to door sales reps try and sell me one.)
There is a lot of competition in this market and the pricing should reflect that.

I realize that there are a lot of lesser known manufacturers out there, like La Scala, but even they have a review on the Coffeegeek site. The last thing I
want to do is buy a "new" machine from a manufacturer which is out of business!

 
Garbage In, Garbage Out, for every step of the process. From Beans to grinder, grounds to machine, coffee to cup.
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qualin
Senior Member
qualin
Joined: 30 Jun 2012
Posts: 649
Location: Calgary, AB
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3
Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A
Vac Pot: Looking to buy
Drip: Manual
Roaster: Considering?
Posted Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:17pm
Subject: Re: Magister ES40/MS40 Machines
 

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

Search "Astra" in the Discussion Forums, and you come up with 1,672 posts.  
Search "Salvatore" in the Discussion Forums, and you get 1,267 posts.

Posted October 7, 2012 link

 

Searching for "Magister" gets 161 posts. Not encouraging.

I like the idea of buying from an American manufacturer, but I don't like how Salvatore machines lack a vacuum breaker
and the Astra Gourmet machines are too large for my counter. (Width wise they are OK, depth wise they're too deep!)

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

I'd certainly get a machine that others have also owned and liked . . . .

Posted October 7, 2012 link

Yes, that was my thought. Thanks for your input. :-)

 
Garbage In, Garbage Out, for every step of the process. From Beans to grinder, grounds to machine, coffee to cup.
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espressor1
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Oct 2012
Posts: 3
Location: CT
Expertise: Professional
Posted Wed Oct 10, 2012, 10:02pm
Subject: Re: Magister ES40/MS40 Machines
 

As a person who has to work on these machine (Magisters) I can assure you that buying one is a complete waste of money.
Anything else would be better then Magister.
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nobbi4711
Senior Member
nobbi4711
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 334
Location: Germany
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Dallacorte Mini EX4
Grinder: Casadio Instantaneous
Vac Pot: none
Drip: French Press
Roaster: Mini-500/800N drum roaster;...
Posted Thu Oct 11, 2012, 2:58am
Subject: Re: Magister ES40/MS40 Machines
 

espressor1 Said:

As a person who has to work on these machine (Magisters) I can assure you that buying one is a complete waste of money.
Anything else would be better then Magister.

Posted October 10, 2012 link

Rubbish.

Magister machines are ok, but the MS40 is not better than, say a BZ99. They're quite hot and need to be equipped with a smal throttle/gigleur in the thermosyphon. The pressurestat is built in not standing, but hanging 90 degree turned and has to be replaced more often than in other machines. The brew head is the Rancilio TS brew head (not the Epoca one) and works quite well.

I sold some Stella and MS40 and would set the MS40 quite next to a BZ99. So the price should not be too far from a BZ99's price.

Greeetings \\//

Marcus
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