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Buying a new machine, R58? Duetto?
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Buying a new...  
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TriHard
Senior Member
TriHard
Joined: 24 Feb 2011
Posts: 36
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rocket R58
Grinder: Compak K10 Fresh
Posted Thu Oct 4, 2012, 8:03am
Subject: Re: Buying a new machine, R58? Duetto?
 

Augsburg57,

I am curious how long it takes for the brew boiler to get to your desired temp in the morning?  On an HX machine for example, it isn't just the boiler that you need to get to the correct temp, but the whole machine/group needs to warm up as well.  I'm curious if you didn't have the PID plugged in, how would you know that you are up to the correct temperature?  Thx.


Augsburg57 Said:

I've had the R58 for a week now.  I am very, very happy with the machine.  I've owned a variety of lesser machines over the past 35 years, and this is the first one that can routinely pull a shot better than 99% of the espresso bars I've visited (keeping in mind they are normally in production mode).  My grinder is a Mazzer Mini E, Type A.  I use the triple, bottomless portafilter dosed at about 23 grams.

My R58 was purchased from Seattle Coffee Gear and I picked it up at their retail store.  I had no shipping damage issues and my machine was perfect right out of the box.

I have never run out of hot brew water or steam.  The size of the boilers is apparently just right for my use.  I typically make 1 to 3 lattes in a row.

Regarding the PID, I leave mine plugged in when in use - at least until I get a timer to turn the machine on in the morning.  For home use, the PID lets you know you are up to brew temperature - which comes in very handy in an environment where you do not leave the machine on for extended periods.  I've set my brew boiler to 226F, as I use a lighter roast (Victrola Streamliner).  (Note, I have a June build date on the machine and firmware Version 5.10, with temp settings available in Fahrenheit.)  I think the external PID would be a non-issue if the machine was turned on all day, as once the settings in the PID are made, I have not changed them. Like I said, my PID is only in use to verify temp when starting up.  I left the steam boiler set per the factory settings and never run out of steam.  I always maintain 1 Bar when steaming.  My machine did come with the newer (thinner/smaller) temperature probe, as is discussed in another thread.  So this probe may respond faster than the first one Rocket used and not require a higher temperature setting.

As far as the steam wand, I leave a large coffee mug on the counter next to the machine and purge excess water and steam into that when I start steaming or go to cleaning mode.  The steam wand works fine and the non-burn feature is great.

Bottom line, the R58 is a piece of art that performs beautifully.  I highly recommend it.

Posted October 2, 2012 link

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Augsburg57
Senior Member
Augsburg57
Joined: 3 Sep 2012
Posts: 34
Location: Seattle and Tucson
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rocket R58
Grinder: Mazzer Mini E Type A
Posted Thu Oct 4, 2012, 2:54pm
Subject: Re: Buying a new machine, R58? Duetto?
 

TriHard Said:

Augsburg57,

I am curious how long it takes for the brew boiler to get to your desired temp in the morning?  On an HX machine for example, it isn't just the boiler that you need to get to the correct temp, but the whole machine/group needs to warm up as well.  I'm curious if you didn't have the PID plugged in, how would you know that you are up to the correct temperature?  Thx.

Posted October 4, 2012 link

@TriHard:  From stone cold, it takes about 20 minutes to be fully heated up.  (Most posts I've seen by owners of the R58 also indicate 20 minutes.) Keep in mind I have the steam boiler turned on, so the system cycles power to the heating elements in the two boilers to heat them up.  The system works such that both the steam boiler and the brew boiler are fully heated and ready to go at about the same time.  If steam was turned off, the brew boiler would get power alone, and may therefore heat up faster.

Anyway, at 20 minutes, the E61 brew group is too hot to touch for more than a split second, the pressure gauge on the left is at 1 Bar and the PID indicates full brew boiler temp (226 F in my case).  As far as I can see, the brew group itself heats up very quickly.  I think for practical purposes, if the pressure gauge is at 1 Bar, you can figure that the entire system is heated up.  Once I get more experience, that might be the only tell tale I need.  It would be nice to have a light turn on when the brew boiler is at the designated temperature.  That would make it a little nicer for those of us at home that don't keep the machine turned on all the time.
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acasabia
Senior Member
acasabia
Joined: 17 Oct 2008
Posts: 620
Location: Westchester, NY
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Expobar Brewtus iv-p,...
Grinder: Quamar M80e, Hario slim
Vac Pot: Yama Vacpot, Aeropress,
Drip: french press
Roaster: hot-air popper.
Posted Thu Oct 4, 2012, 10:24pm
Subject: Re: Buying a new machine, R58? Duetto?
 

So I unpacked and set her up today, WLL sent it in its manufacturer's box, inside a larger box filled with foam and additional cardboard for support on the walls and bottom. Nothing as damaged and all was well. They set and tested the machine prior to shipping, so some residual water did come out and fog up the manometers, but this faded with time.

Here are some first impressions...

The brewtus iv-P is huge, absolutely huge, I'm sure all of these machines are just as big (check their specs) but this one is tall. The iv-v is about an inch or two shorter though...

Strong build, everything feels very well fitted and I don't here anything moving around other than the pumps own vibration. The water tank seems smaller than it is, it came with two water softening cartridges (rechargeable) and a plumb line. The water tray sits on a sensor which will turn of the unit if the reservoir becomes empty. Mine came with a double spouted filter and a bottomless which both feel nice and weigh a good bit. The baskets included are for a single, an 18g double, and a ~21g in the bottomless. There is also a back flush disk, and I received a blank basket as well.

The tamper it came with is just awful, though I also received a steel rattleware while I wait on my c-ripple from RB.

Once filled with water, plugging in and turning it on was simple... no assembly required. The PID is very easy to use, and the color is very eye catching, even on a chrome machine. I timed the start up at 9 and a half minutes before the brew boiler was up to temp (203 at the group head) and the offset was accurate when measured using IR , the steam took a bit longer but that's expected. My first shot was a throw-away, but once I got my grinder tuned in (about a full turn finer than my Le'lit) I was getting syrupy shots that I could only rarely catch on my le'lit. The pre-infusion is simple enough to use, and pretty substantial in terms of water volume and effect on taste.

The steam arm is my only gripe, the single hole tip is very usable an by no means would prevent me from purchasing again, but the pressure drop is quick and the foam is thick. I switched out to a 4 hole tip from a rocket with much better results. I have other tips to play with, when I have the time I'll see how they do. Again the difference probably comes down to technique and wouldn't prevent my purchase, thought the 4 tip set from rocket is only ~$20.

the water arm is not a no-burn arm, though I don't see this as an issue. The drip tray is substantial, the chrome is nice. In summary I like it.

There is a sharp edge on the cup tray which is an issue when removing it to access the water tank, I fixed this by making a handle out of wire while I look for a better solution. There are holes for cup rails which may be available from somewhere...


I'm going to see how she performs in a full day tomorrow with more than a few drinks. Once I have a better feel for it Ill post a full review and some pictures.

-AC

 
Anthony C

Currently pulling:
Path Coffee Roasters (PortChester, NY) Feather in cap espresso.

Cold Brewing:
Gimme! (ithaca, NY) Moca Java

http://coffeeandneuroscience.wordpress.com/
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emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,129
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4 x2, VDD...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Fri Oct 5, 2012, 8:57am
Subject: Re: Buying a new machine, R58? Duetto?
 

awesome!

I would suggest that maybe your first shot was a throw away because of the short start up time?  Even though people keep saying their machines are warmed up in 10 minutes, it really takes much longer to fully heat all the components adequately.  you might want to invest in a standard appliance timer, so you can have it come on an hour before you're ready to use it in the morning, then it'll be really well warmed up and ready to go.

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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acasabia
Senior Member
acasabia
Joined: 17 Oct 2008
Posts: 620
Location: Westchester, NY
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Expobar Brewtus iv-p,...
Grinder: Quamar M80e, Hario slim
Vac Pot: Yama Vacpot, Aeropress,
Drip: french press
Roaster: hot-air popper.
Posted Fri Oct 5, 2012, 10:02am
Subject: Re: Buying a new machine, R58? Duetto?
 

emradguy Said:

you might want to invest in a standard appliance timer, so you can have it come on an hour before you're ready to use it in the morning, then it'll be really well warmed up and ready to go.

Posted October 5, 2012 link


Already picked one up, a nice digital one that takes multiple programs too! Only $15 w/surge protection. This morning was a lot better.

 
Anthony C

Currently pulling:
Path Coffee Roasters (PortChester, NY) Feather in cap espresso.

Cold Brewing:
Gimme! (ithaca, NY) Moca Java

http://coffeeandneuroscience.wordpress.com/
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JasonBrandtLewis
Senior Member
JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,398
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Fri Oct 5, 2012, 10:03am
Subject: Re: Buying a new machine, R58? Duetto?
 

Congratulations on the new machine, and just to echo what Ron said . . . just because a boiler is up to temperature doesn't mean that the machine is up to temperature.  Two different things.  This is why most of us with "prosumer" or commercial machines in our homes do have appliance timers that will kick the machine ON about an hour or so prior to our wake-up time (or leave the machine on 24/7).  That way, when we stumble into the kitchen . . . .

Timers are relatively inexpensive.  Check this link.


/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

EDIT: ah . . . beat me to it!  ;^)

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
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emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,129
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4 x2, VDD...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Fri Oct 5, 2012, 10:51am
Subject: Re: Buying a new machine, R58? Duetto?
 

^ sorry Man!

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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