DeanOK Senior Member Joined: 24 Sep 2012 Posts: 678 Location: OK Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B Grinder: Vario W
Posted Wed Oct 3, 2012, 4:22pm Subject: HX vs Dual Boiler advice I got today... now I have a question
I really think I got some bad advice from one of the major retailers today, but just to be sure I am going to ask here in the forum.
I was told (by a salesperson at a major espresso machine retailer that you all would recognize) that I could not steam milk and make espresso at the same time on a HX machine. Now I have never owned a high quality espresso machine, but I think I can read and that is not what I thought I understood from reading in this forum and other places. Since I mostly drink lattes, I had made up my mind that I was going to buy a machine that wold do both when I laid down the cash.
Just to be clear, I can make espresso and steam milk at the same time on either a HX machine or a dual boiler machine... correct?
This is correct. What I have heard is that when steaming and pulling a shot at the same time on smaller boilers, the in the HX line would be lower. From what I've heard (a member who used scace to measure this) and in my own experience, this temp offset is negligable. There's a lot of mass in the group, and the water inside the boiler (even on smaller boiler hx machines), that simply steaming isn't going to do much to the overall mass that controls the temp of the brewing line.
Posted Wed Oct 3, 2012, 4:35pm Subject: Re: HX vs Dual Boiler advice I got today... now I have a question
I really think I got some bad advice from one of the major retailer today, but just to be sure I am going to ask here in the forum. I was told (by a salesperson at a major espresso machine retailer that you all would recognize) that I could not steam milk and make espresso at the same time on a HX machine.
Nonsense. Of course you can. I imagine that there may be a few machines that are challenged to do this. It depends on the machine and it's thermal efficiency, recovery rates, and a bunch of other scientific stuff this art major probably doesn't know, but I use to do it all the time with my Vibiemme Domobar Super.
Time to find either: A - a different machine B - a different salesperson C - a different reseller
Part 2 - Explain why. Full sentence answers. Spelling counts.
I understand the hesitancy to name the reseller, but what was the machine in question?
We were on the phone. Actually, we were not talking about a particular machine. I just told the sales person that I wanted either a HX machine or a dual boiler machine because I wanted to be able to steam milk while making espresso or soon after. I had already made up my mind that the machine I would buy would probably be between $1100.00 and $1800.00 so not much of a salesperson. I didn't provide the salesperson with a budget though. I only told them the features that I wanted on the machine....
That list was: E61, HX or Dual boiler, ability to connect to water if I wanted and "maybe" a PID. And I also said I liked the chrome/stainless look of the bigger machines.
I don't know much about espresso machines, but I am pretty sure that list knocks you out of all of the machines below 1K so I don't know why they tried to talk me into a $629 machine that had none of the features I said I wanted. Again, not much of a salesperson and I am pretty sure they were distracted by something on their end... didn't seem like they was paying much attention to me.
I have read where other people here in the forum think a lot of the company, so probably just the wrong person to have answering the phone.
MonkeyK Senior Member Joined: 12 Dec 2008 Posts: 214 Location: Twin Cities, MN Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Vivaldi II Grinder: Baratza Vario Drip: Aeropress, Bunn Phase Brew Roaster: Behmor
Posted Wed Oct 3, 2012, 5:25pm Subject: Re: HX vs Dual Boiler advice I got today... now I have a question
Not an HX vs DB thing, but I find it difficult to pull a shot and steam at the same time on a semi-automatic. Ambitextrous multitaskers probably would not have problems. That's part of the reason that I bought a Vivaldi.
Endo Senior Member Joined: 26 Jun 2008 Posts: 804 Location: , location, location. Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: machine is < important than... Grinder: !
Posted Wed Oct 3, 2012, 5:53pm Subject: Re: HX vs Dual Boiler advice I got today... now I have a question
Are you running a cafe? I've have never felt the need to steam and pull a shot at the same time at home. (And funny enough, I also own a Vivaldi).
Like texting and driving, don't take your eyes off what really matters. If you aren't watching your shot progress and cutting it off at the right time, you're probably making less than optimal espresso.
As long as the steam pressure is consistant and ready when your shot stops, that's more than enough.
No... personal use only. I just know I steam milk a couple of times a day and, while I agree I probably would not make coffee and steam milk at the same time, I think it would save time if I could start steaming milk as soon as the shot was done. I figure over a period of years, it would be worth the convenience. I never had the ability to steam and make coffee in the past with the machines I have owned and the time I have waited to steam milk is definitely not a good thing.
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