Coffeenoobie Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 2,368 Location: PNW Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: N S Oscar Grinder: Vario W
Posted Tue Oct 2, 2012, 12:48pm Subject: Re: Just starting. Buying my first Machine - Need some advice.
Don't listen to him, he is one of those lever heads... kidding!
The best grinder you can get for not very much cash would be hand powered. I personally could deal with that if coffee was not made before I am fully awake... if coffee was an after dinner drink I could do hand powered. Mornings? No, the grinder must work at a button push that is all I can do.
Coffeenoobie
Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder. My coffee treasure map... Click Here (maps.google.com)
Markarian Senior Member Joined: 27 Jun 2012 Posts: 475 Location: Seattle Area Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Modded Nuova Simonelli Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Mazzer Super Jolly Drip: Moka, Aeropress, Melitta 102 Roaster: Wear-Ever Popcorn Pumper
Posted Tue Oct 2, 2012, 1:08pm Subject: Re: Just starting. Buying my first Machine - Need some advice.
For $300? Saeco Rio Vapore/Starbucks Barista/Estro Vapore (same machine) Or get a refurbished Saeco Aroma from Seattle Coffee Gear for $199 and for your grinder, get a Hario Skerton from Amazon for $40. For the remaining $60 you could almost snag a nonpressurized Portafilter. The Hario a very nice hand grinder that produces a fluffy, even grind that compares to grinders costing ten times as much. As long as you're willing to put some elbow grease in.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,758 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Tue Oct 2, 2012, 1:16pm Subject: Re: Just starting. Buying my first Machine - Need some advice.
Well, I am late to the party again! I have read several times in the above posts, the best advice you can get when starting the coffee hobby, get a good grinder. Again as others have said, a hand grinder will give you more quality for your budget than you can get from anything with a motor on it.
Also as some have said, they enjoy the process of grinding by hand and as others have said, it is work that you might not enjoy as much as drinking the espresso.
You really can get some good shots for under $300 but it will take you some time and looking to get the best grinder you can for your limited budget.
I can feel it back through the screen, you are saying "these guys are nuts, who in the world needs a $200 coffee grinder?????" I know I felt that way when I first started out. My how my sights have changed since then!
A good grinder will give you consistent size grounds, this is very important, if the pieces are too big, you will never get all the flavor you paid for from the beans and if the pieces are too small, you will get everything they have to offer then you will start to get nasty flavor from the finest pieces and that will ruin the rest of the coffee, see, consistent is better.
Espresso is a different thing all together from drip or press pot or vac pot ect, it requires a different grind from the other brew methods and not just finer either, different.
That machine you have purchased (well yesterday you said you would buy it today anyway) is able to give you at least as good as the local coffee shop quality (that really isn't so high of a bar to set) though as others have said, more expensive machines are easier to get quality from as they are more stable and that is a huge factor in making espresso, consistency.
Start by reading the hand grinder link above. Buy the best grinder you can afford and do not turn your nose up at used equipment, that is where you will get the best deals.
As said too, it is quite likely that the machine will have a pressurized porta filter. That alone will allow you to use a coffee that is not as consistent in grind quality and thus allows you to use a lower quality grinder. This is not all good, as the way this porta filter works is to not make espresso per se but it makes a strong press pot like coffee and fake crema. Crema is the Chestnut foam on top of your shots. On a good shot is the oils from the coffee whipped into an emulision through the brewing process. With a pressurized porta filter, it comes from forcing the coffee through a small hole under pressure and spray whips the coffee. It is not the same thing but most people just starting out don't know the difference.
Welcome to the board and to good to great coffee!
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,758 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Tue Oct 2, 2012, 1:18pm Subject: Re: Just starting. Buying my first Machine - Need some advice.
Markarian Said:
For $300? Saeco Rio Vapore/Starbucks Barista/Estro Vapore (same machine) Or get a refurbished Saeco Aroma from Seattle Coffee Gear for $199 and for your grinder, get a Hario Skerton from Amazon for $40. For the remaining $60 you could almost snag a nonpressurized Portafilter. The Hario a very nice hand grinder that produces a fluffy, even grind that compares to grinders costing ten times as much. As long as you're willing to put some elbow grease in.
Markarian Senior Member Joined: 27 Jun 2012 Posts: 475 Location: Seattle Area Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Modded Nuova Simonelli Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Mazzer Super Jolly Drip: Moka, Aeropress, Melitta 102 Roaster: Wear-Ever Popcorn Pumper
Posted Tue Oct 2, 2012, 1:35pm Subject: Re: Just starting. Buying my first Machine - Need some advice.
Did you actually buy the machine? I personally don't think a used DeLonghi is worth three figures. If you haven't purchased the machine, again I'd recommend a used or refurbished Saeco. They're limited, to be sure, but there's so many people who know exactly how they work and there's a lot of how-tos on how to get the most out of them.
And yes, I can second the grinder thing. I've only been into coffee for six months, and I thought the grinder emphasis was annoying at first. It's just coffee, right? Well I can attest first hand the world of difference between a crappy grinder and a good one. If you get a machine really cheap, go for the Baratza Preciso for an electric grinder. Baratza's customer service is above and beyond anything I've ever seen, so you won't be disappointed with them.
Coffeenoobie Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 2,368 Location: PNW Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: N S Oscar Grinder: Vario W
Posted Tue Oct 2, 2012, 2:14pm Subject: Re: Just starting. Buying my first Machine - Need some advice.
If you can't do the hand grinder a Preciso or a Vario is the best you can get in a home grinder. Like I said commercial grinders can be had but are huge and often need the blades changed out right away. (often $50 - $60) But they are a good buy if you can find one at $300 or less.
I know it is really hard to hear the grinder is more important than the machine. But I swear it is true. I did not believe it at first either. But when I got the good grinder it was night and day.
Coffeenoobie
Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder. My coffee treasure map... Click Here (maps.google.com)
An Elli that's currently waiting for a replacement top boiler half (thankfully found and on its way), since my 'free' welding job was worth every penny. But that's a whole other story.
I should have had a little more patience, but I was in a hurry to get the machine working again. As a result, it's been down for over a month.
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