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Not getting good results with superauto
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Not getting good...  
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 650
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Mon Sep 24, 2012, 8:11am
Subject: Not getting good results with superauto
 

First, let me apologize. I know I am going to say some things here that will make many true blue coffee drinkers cringe.... but honesty is always the best policy... so here I go.

Keeping this story as short as possible, Several years ago I had a small espresso machine and a grinder.  I usually made mochas and latte drinks and I loved them. But I was getting thicker in the middle, so I put it away and quit making coffee for a few years.  When I took it out to start using it again, it  wouldn't pump, so I tossed it and decided to order a superautomatic because I am lazy.

I ordered a Jura Capresso ENA 4. I have never got a good cup of coffee out of this machine. I buy espresso beans from Starbucks (yeah, I know). I find Starbucks coffee acceptable when I go in the store and have the barista (yeah, I know) make me a latte, so I assume that I should get similar results with the Jura when I use their beans... but I don't.

Since I am not schooled in all of lingo of the true coffee drinkers I will only say that I like the "woody" after flavor I get from a Starbucks (or even McDonald's) brew. I actually prefer most McDonald's brews to Starbucks, but I can drink both and enjoy them. When I put the Starbucks coffee in the Jura, the after taste is very bitter without much coffee taste (does this make sense?).

Anyway, I have adjusted everything. I assume the problem is me, but I don't know how to fix myself. I have considered ordering some more expensive Italian beans or ordering some beans from someplace that I know are freshly roasted, but I don't really think that is my issue.

Anyone have some thoughts. If I have offended anyone with my lack of knowledge here, I apologize in advance.

Would appreciate some helpful hints or constructive criticism.

Thanks
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GVDub
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 849
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Londinium I, Arrarex...
Grinder: Gaggia MD85, Dienes Mokka,...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Abid Clever
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Mon Sep 24, 2012, 8:19am
Subject: Re: Not getting good results with superauto
 

It's tough with a super-auto, especially with beans that are likely to be less than fresh.

Couple of quick questions: How long does it take your Jura to pull a shot, not from the time it starts to grind, but from the time the pump starts to when the shot is finished? What is the volume of the finished shot?

The weakest points in most super-autos are the grinder and water temperature. The grinders usually aren't top quality and not easily adjustable with a sufficient level of accuracy to really dial in a shot, and the water temperature is all over the place because large amounts of plastic do not lead to thermal stability.

By all means, order some fresh beans and see if that makes a difference (or at least, what kind of a difference it makes).
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frcn
Senior Member
frcn
Joined: 23 Dec 2001
Posts: 3,356
Location: Northern California
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vibiemme Domobar Double
Grinder: Mazzer Kony, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Hario, 2 Cory pots, 1 Cory...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Bunn A10 mod...
Roaster: computer controlled Hottop,...
Posted Mon Sep 24, 2012, 8:21am
Subject: Re: Not getting good results with superauto
 

You are feeding a marginal machine less-then-marginal coffee beans, and you wonder why the taste is marginal?

Seriously, get some quality, FRESH-ROASTED coffee. if the coffee you buy does not say "ROASTED ON" somewhere on the packaging, or if the beans are very oily, or the beans are really dark, or the package says "Espresso Roast," then odds are the results will be as you are experiencing.

You said: "I assume that I should get similar results with the Jura when I use their beans... but I don't."
And you will not.

 
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 650
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Mon Sep 24, 2012, 8:33am
Subject: Re: Not getting good results with superauto
 

frcn Said:

You are feeding a marginal machine less-then-marginal coffee beans, and you wonder why the taste is marginal?.

Posted September 24, 2012 link

Actually, I don't consider the taste to me marginal, I consider the taste to be nasty... it is really bad. So bad that I think I must be doing something wrong in a fundamental way. I usually pour the coffee down the drain.
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frcn
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frcn
Joined: 23 Dec 2001
Posts: 3,356
Location: Northern California
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vibiemme Domobar Double
Grinder: Mazzer Kony, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Hario, 2 Cory pots, 1 Cory...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Bunn A10 mod...
Roaster: computer controlled Hottop,...
Posted Mon Sep 24, 2012, 9:14am
Subject: Re: Not getting good results with superauto
 

Semantics aside...  

The beverage we call coffee is made from water and....? Anyone? That's right. coffee.
Don't like that taste? First thing to consider is the coffee.
After that we can discuss cleaning regimes, water quality and its effect on the taste of the beverage, and whatever possible adjustments the machine has to offer.

 
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jwoodyu
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jwoodyu
Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 847
Location: Michigan
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Allex Duetto II
Grinder: Mazzer Major
Posted Mon Sep 24, 2012, 9:25am
Subject: Re: Not getting good results with superauto
 

I would add stay far away from oily beans and get a blend that likes a cooler brew temp. The oily beans will gunk the machine rendering the dreaded "ERROR 8". Beans that like a cooler brew temp might help make up for the plastic brew group and temp issues if only in a small way. I would think Redbird fits both those pretty well and it is reasonably priced while you dial in the machine.

 
Yes i have a reason for leaving SCG off my list, yes it is my opinion, yes it is subjective as opinions are by definition, no don't start a flame war because you disagree.
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kafegeek
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Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 82
Location: Czech republic
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: delonghi
Posted Mon Sep 24, 2012, 11:17am
Subject: Re: Not getting good results with superauto
 

Hi, some quality FRESH-ROASTED coffe is essential.
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Coffeenoobie
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Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,015
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Mon Sep 24, 2012, 11:21am
Subject: Re: Not getting good results with superauto
 

I don't know about OK but I hear there are good roasters in TX.  Check your local area you might be surprised who is roasting and just because they are not a national brand doesn't mean that it is not good.  You can always mail order from our favorite roasters.  And fresh will be a great improvement over starbucks.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 650
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Mon Sep 24, 2012, 11:55am
Subject: Re: Not getting good results with superauto
 

Ok... with the prompting I have received in this thread, I looked around and found Elemental Coffee Company (roasters) 40 miles from me in Oklahoma City. I called and talked to them and they told me there was a coffee shop in my town that used their coffee and sold their beans retail. They said they shipped them coffee on a weekly basis. Since this shop is close and convenient, I am going to go by their shop and buy some beans and see how it goes.

This may be the answer because years ago when I made my own espresso drinks with a manual machine, I did source my beans from a coffee shop (not Starbucks).
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Coffeenoobie
Senior Member
Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,015
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Mon Sep 24, 2012, 12:20pm
Subject: Re: Not getting good results with superauto
 

Be sure to taste a shot when you are there.  Hopefully, you will get a good barista and so a good idea what the beans should taste like.  I often go to shops that sell beans too and taste it before I bring it home.  However, there is no guarantee you will get a good barista.  Even in the PNW where coffee is considered serious business you don't always get a good one.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
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