I think the guts are the same... but you have a rotating spout and a nicer frother
The results seemed to be very repeatable when I was using the Elemental 228. When using the SB brand, I was always hoping I couldn't repeat it. :)
I bought the J4 because of the good reviews I found for it and the fact that it wouldn't take up a lot of room on the counter. I used to use (more than 5 years ago) a manual espresso machine and a grinder. I didn't mind the manual part so much but seemed like I always got coffee grounds all over the place. I was really attracted to the idea of having an automatic. I was regretting buying it a few days ago, but I actually had a few latte's that were really good once I got some decent beans in the hopper. I don't think I would ever be a coffee taste judge, so I might be quite happy with it. I know that a lot of people here are not impressed with the autos, but at the same time I read on sites like Amazon where a lot of people love them. Maybe not all of us have a palate refined enough to tell the difference. We will see.
As for the draw time, I was timing a Monza on an online video and it looked to me that they were getting a standard 1 oz in about 20 seconds... since I thought the expected time by the connoisseurs was closer to 28 seconds, I was a little surprised. I hope I don't get the fever... because if I do, I will probably own a $2500.00 automatic. Probably don't need it.
Hmmm... Nitrites cause cancer. Burnt stuff has nitrites. Burnt things containing nitrite are bitter and unpleasant. Starbucks is bitter, unpleasant and burnt, so it follows that Starbucks contains nitrites. Therefore, Starbucks causes cancer!
So, even if you don't end up with "the fever," good beans are the way to go!
There's a big difference between drinking coffee to wake up and waking up to drink coffee.
Posted Thu Sep 27, 2012, 8:48pm Subject: Re: Not getting good results with superauto
Actually, I don't consider the taste to me marginal, I consider the taste to be nasty... it is really bad. So bad that I think I must be doing something wrong in a fundamental way. I usually pour the coffee down the drain.
Don't beat yourself up. Even a SA, with excellent beans and a clean grinder should produce drinkable coffee drinks.
Starbucks and the like can be as much as 6 months old in the bag. First, order some nice espresso blend whole bean from a reputable vendor. Search our Espresso Blends forum for something that looks good.
If that doesn't improve things...can you bypass your built in grinder?
If so, perhaps get a refurb Baratza Preciso, etc and see what that does for you.
To be blunt, most here would testify that a good espresso grinder and a $400-500 machine such as a gaggia, or used Silvia will give you a finished product WAY behind what a SA normally is capable of. It is what it is.
DeanOK Senior Member Joined: 24 Sep 2012 Posts: 758 Location: OK Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B Grinder: Fort'e GP
Posted Tue Oct 2, 2012, 4:34pm Subject: Re: Not getting good results with superauto
Just got off the phone with Jura. At one point last week, I made some coffee that I could at least drink (wasn't bad), but I have thrown most all of the coffee I have made since Saturday down the drain. Some of it was RedBird that was roasted last week and some of it was locally sourced that was less than 2 or 3 weeks old. I have spent the last 4 days shopping for a new conventional espresso machine, but I would be perfectly happy to make this machine (ENA 4) reach my goals... I am not all that picky I don't think.
Anway, I told Jura that my coffee was weak and bitter and that a 20z shot with flavor set to strong (about 16 grams I think). was taking about 10 to 14 seconds.
Their answer was for me to set the grind to the coarsest setting. They told me it would probably solve my issues.
I did as they said even though it didn't make much sense to me. Draw time is about 15 to 18 seconds now, there is a healthy amount of crema and I can at least drink it. It was a little better, but not what I would call good. They said if I was not happy after I set the grind to do the coarsest setting to clean the machine. I have run about 3 lbs of coffee through the machine in the last 10 days or two weeks so I am not sure I think it needs to be cleaned, but I will do as they say.
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