Posted Sun Aug 19, 2012, 7:18pm Subject: Re: Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
I thought I would update my R58 experience after using it daily for about six weeks. Since I purchased the machine from Seattle Coffee Gear, and they allow a 30 period for a refund, I kept the packing boxes ready for shipping the unit back. I can say that at no time during the 30 day period did I ever have any serious thoughts about returning the machine. Granted, it is not perfect and has some first generation issues, but overall I am very pleased. I can't imagine going back to a single boiler machine, that isn't plumbed in, and that has marginal temperature control. At the end of the 30 days, I put the boxes up in the attic and felt good about my purchase.
All an espresso machine does is heat water to a specific temperature, then increases the pressure of the water to 9 bars to flow through up to 60 milliliters through a filter. If milk drinks are to be made, then the expresso machine has to have the capability to produce steam. Ideally, the machine should have the capability for a plumbed in water source. That is it. Why this costs over $1,000 is surprising to me. Still, it is what it is, and I'm happy wtih my purchase with no buyer's remorse.
Bgosselin Senior Member Joined: 26 Jul 2012 Posts: 51 Location: Canada,quebec Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Mon Aug 20, 2012, 12:00pm Subject: Re: Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
I just feel the same way. I just love this machine. Stunning look and good steamer. I've order a 4 holes 0.9mm tips to see if I can perform better micro foam. But it does well with the two holes steam tips already.
Posted Mon Aug 20, 2012, 12:32pm Subject: Re: Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
Bgosselin Said:
I just feel the same way. I just love this machine. Stunning look and good steamer. I've order a 4 holes 0.9mm tips to see if I can perform better micro foam. But it does well with the two holes steam tips already.
Posted Mon Aug 20, 2012, 2:55pm Subject: Re: Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
Good new on the steam issue.
Read this on a German forum and I will contact my retailer to get the new sensor tomorrow.
Google translate: "As I mentioned, was not too thrilled by the pressure fluctuations and the pressure drop for no reason I have discussed with Andrew Meo and we are then come to an agreement that Rocket sends me a new temperature sensor (see picture). This is according to Andrew a "test almost-reaction", the Rocket tested / used? Fast reaction is logical, because the part has only about a third of the original thickness, ergo less sluggish and therefore also covers smaller temperature changes rapidly, and then in "heat command" converts. Unfortunately, this thing has a slightly different offset, so I had to set the temperature to 125 ° C. So I now have a constant 1.3 bar pressure drop with minimal make cash to 1.15 anything. Overshooting over 1.3 bar no longer gibts. Reheating during foaming now works better, you can clearly see that the heating starts. The pressure during the foaming never drops below 1 bar. Without going to criticize too know-it, but it could have been sooner Rocket. Fast sensor = fast response to temperature changes = more constant pressure. Not exactly rocket science ...
I am impressed by the helpfulness and efficient help of Rocket. They could also insist that I bring the machine to the dealer, but instead I get the free probe sent. "
lozinsky Senior Member Joined: 19 Jun 2012 Posts: 16 Location: Vancouver Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Mon Aug 20, 2012, 9:12pm Subject: Re: Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
I have noticed the same thing on mine although it has not affected my ability to steam milk.
I have my service boiler set to 123c and it hovers around 1.1 bar but then drops rapidly (to .6 bar) when i start steaming. If i blow out a bunch of steam (down to .6 bar) and wait for it to recover the pressure will not usually drop below 1 bar after that. I had the service boiler up to 125c and it did not drop below 1 bar ever and will likely turn it back up to that tomorrow.
I would like to know if anyone in north america has heard from dealers if a different sensor will be made available. The fluctuations in the steam pressure and the fact that the service boiler needs to be set 6-9 degrees higher than the manual recommends bothers me. So far this is the only thing with the machine that i thought was weird.
Posted Tue Aug 21, 2012, 5:34am Subject: Re: Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
lozinsky Said:
I have my service boiler set to 123c and it hovers around 1.1 bar but then drops rapidly (to .6 bar) when i start steaming. If i blow out a bunch of steam (down to .6 bar) and wait for it to recover the pressure will not usually drop below 1 bar after that. I had the service boiler up to 125c and it did not drop below 1 bar ever and will likely turn it back up to that tomorrow.
I would like to know if anyone in north america has heard from dealers if a different sensor will be made available. The fluctuations in the steam pressure and the fact that the service boiler needs to be set 6-9 degrees higher than the manual recommends bothers me. So far this is the only thing with the machine that i thought was weird.
The addendum in the manual actually recommends a setting of 1.2 bar. I have to set my machine to 257F/125C, the maximum temperature setting on the PID, to achieve this pressure. This is consistent with the temperature of the post from the German forum, who mentions a "slightly different offset" with the new probe. Since the pressure is at a reasonable setting, I wouldn't worry about the temperature reading, which may vary depending on the probe.
Perhaps later shipments of the machine have been sent with the newer probe? and there was no time to update the manual with the new temperature readings? I'll have to open up my machine later and check the probe.
Posted Tue Aug 21, 2012, 5:39am Subject: Re: Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
I found the Manual to be contradictory in a few places. The Maximum/minimum plumbed-in pressures varied, depending on where you were you were reading it in the Manual.
I also noticed the steam pressure was rather wimpy if it was not on a heating cycle.
lozinsky Senior Member Joined: 19 Jun 2012 Posts: 16 Location: Vancouver Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Tue Aug 21, 2012, 7:47am Subject: Re: Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
I would like to note that throughout this whole thread there have been very few unhappy R58 owners and the minor issues (if you could call them that - for me the only thing was the varying steam pressure which still creates great micro foam in 10-15 seconds) for most people are by no means cause to return the machine. It is great that you took action when you were not ultimately satisfied by your purchase and got another machine - that being said it would also be great if you took up the issue of your un-refunded money with WLL instead of continuing to post about it on the R58 forum and leave the discussion to owners/potential purchasers as your experience has been thoroughly documented for others to read in the future.
Posted Tue Aug 21, 2012, 7:59am Subject: Re: Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
lozinsky Said:
I would like to note that throughout this whole thread there have been very few unhappy R58 owners and the minor issues (if you could call them that - for me the only thing was the varying steam pressure which still creates great micro foam in 10-15 seconds) for most people are by no means cause to return the machine. It is great that you took action when you were not ultimately satisfied by your purchase and got another machine - that being said it would also be great if you took up the issue of your un-refunded money with WLL instead of continuing to post about it on the R58 forum and leave the discussion to owners/potential purchasers as your experience has been thoroughly documented for others to read in the future.
WLL has just refunded all monies so that is cool with me. They do a good job when it is necessary.
As for that machine, the R-58, it is experiencing first generation issues that all machines experience. Once it has been on the market for a couple of years it will be a solid performer but it is sad that they did not pay closer attention to operational details. The drain and drip tray issues are throughout the Rocket line.
I feel bad for WLL to be in the middle between the manufacturer and the consumer with a machine that needs tweaking.
Posted Tue Aug 21, 2012, 3:18pm Subject: Re: Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
AnthonyM Said:
Perhaps later shipments of the machine have been sent with the newer probe? and there was no time to update the manual with the new temperature readings? I'll have to open up my machine later and check the probe.
This appears to be the case. I opened the top of my machine, and could see the updated probe inserted into the larger service boiler. It has a black wire with a grey plastic collar, rather than a blue wire with a metal crimped collar. The brew boiler keeps the original, thicker thermocouple.
If you don't want to take off the top of your machine, use a flashlight to look through the holes of the cup warmer.
I believe the PID interface originally had a steam pressure setting, but then Rocket changed it to temperature, I presume since that is what condition is being measured and controlled in the first place. They remedied the problem of the original probe responding too slowly to the service boiler temperature change during steaming, but didn't have a chance to update the manual.
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