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Delonghi EC702 Extremely High Group Head Temp
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CoffeeSleuth
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CoffeeSleuth
Joined: 4 Oct 2011
Posts: 8
Location: Nevada
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Delonghi EC702
Grinder: Starbucks Barista Burr...
Drip: Ceramic Pour Over
Roaster: Nostalgia Popcorn Popper
Posted Wed Sep 5, 2012, 10:26pm
Subject: Delonghi EC702 Extremely High Group Head Temp
 

I've got an Delonghi EC702 and it's been both a good and bad machine.  Sometimes it produces amazing espresso.  Other times the shot is pure black and dead.  So I measured the temp of the water right from the group head as it dripped and it measured at between 230 and 260 degrees F.  From everything I know about coffee this is way to much.  If I'm not incorrect, the temp should be between 190 and 210ish.  In the past it has done fine if I use it shortly after I turn it on.  I assume this is because I've used it early before it has time to overheat?  Is there anything I can do?  Does anybody else have problems like this?
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JGG
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JGG
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 1,376
Location: Kentucky, US
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: PID Silvia; PID Alexia
Grinder: Mazzer SJ
Roaster: Hottop D w/HTC+TC4C
Posted Thu Sep 6, 2012, 5:23am
Subject: Re: Delonghi EC702 Extremely High Group Head Temp
 

Something must be wrong with your measurements, I think. The water temperature can't really be above 212F once it has left the group.

Jim
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CMIN
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Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,356
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Thu Sep 6, 2012, 9:07am
Subject: Re: Delonghi EC702 Extremely High Group Head Temp
 

Agree, I have a bar32 around which has similar internals, no way the water is coming out that hot. If anything these Delonghi's barely get to/within acceptable espresso temps. If you measured those temps you'd have steam pouring out like crazy. Test your thermometer in a freezer and pot of boiling water and see what it reads. You still need to wait a bit when using, I never used my bar32 once the light kicked on, I left it on for a bit to warm up fully as these small boiler machines suffer fast heat loss pulling shots so any little bit helps, they don't really overheat. I remember leaving mine on for over an hour bunch of times.
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Burner0000
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Joined: 28 Jul 2011
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Location: Cambridge, Ontario Canada
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia, VFA Expres...
Grinder: Macap MX/VFA N1464/Kyocera...
Drip: Manual Drip, French Press
Roaster: Behmor 1600 / Sonofresco
Posted Thu Sep 6, 2012, 12:46pm
Subject: Re: Delonghi EC702 Extremely High Group Head Temp
 

Are you sure your not setting it to steam then hitting brew?  This will give you steam temp water.  This could also be a fault issue when it was put together.
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CoffeeSleuth
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CoffeeSleuth
Joined: 4 Oct 2011
Posts: 8
Location: Nevada
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Delonghi EC702
Grinder: Starbucks Barista Burr...
Drip: Ceramic Pour Over
Roaster: Nostalgia Popcorn Popper
Posted Thu Sep 6, 2012, 12:56pm
Subject: Re: Delonghi EC702 Extremely High Group Head Temp
 

Ok... I did confirm that my digital thermometer is way out of wack... Off by like almost 30 degrees, setting it to Celsius then back to F* seemed to reset the calibration..  It's about 70 degrees in my house and it's saying the ambient is 96, so yeah.  I have always left the "steam" button on because it builds temp for the steamer correct?  Should I turn it off when I go to pull the shot?  I was under the impression they were two different boilers in this model?  Maybe I'm wrong.  I will pull a shot with the steam on and the steam off and check temp using the thermometer I use for my steamed milk.  That one appears to be accurate.  Just trying to figure out why it either pulls amazing shots or so so shots.  I have a pressurized and depressurized portafilter basket.  It doesn't seem to make a difference which one I use.
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Burner0000
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Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 1,051
Location: Cambridge, Ontario Canada
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia, VFA Expres...
Grinder: Macap MX/VFA N1464/Kyocera...
Drip: Manual Drip, French Press
Roaster: Behmor 1600 / Sonofresco
Posted Thu Sep 6, 2012, 1:20pm
Subject: Re: Delonghi EC702 Extremely High Group Head Temp
 

It has dual thermostats like most Delonghi models.  I own the EC155 and have done extensive research on their machines.  When your warming on the steam function your forcing the water to boil at a higher than brew temp.  Sorry but no machine with dual boilers sells for under $1,000. I pull nice shots with my EC155 but I know they can be better.  If you want temp control you can always add a PID.

Make sure if your using the reg pressurized baskets that you are still using good coffee and somewhat finer grounds.  Fresh beans as well.  If you using the depresurized it's most likely the tamp or the grind itself.  There is a huge diff in brew on each!  What type of grinder are you using?
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CoffeeSleuth
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CoffeeSleuth
Joined: 4 Oct 2011
Posts: 8
Location: Nevada
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Delonghi EC702
Grinder: Starbucks Barista Burr...
Drip: Ceramic Pour Over
Roaster: Nostalgia Popcorn Popper
Posted Thu Sep 6, 2012, 2:10pm
Subject: Re: Delonghi EC702 Extremely High Group Head Temp
 

I'm using a Starbucks Barista Burr grinder.  I haven't made the modification to make the grind extra find, if I continue to have issues I'll do the modification.  How do you add PID to something like what I have?  The EC702?
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Nickfrogger
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Nickfrogger
Joined: 26 Nov 2010
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Location: Spokane
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia V3 w/PID,...
Grinder: Lelit PL53, Baratza Maestro
Vac Pot: Yama TCA-5 Siphon
Drip: V60 (A red one!)
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Thu Sep 6, 2012, 2:15pm
Subject: Re: Delonghi EC702 Extremely High Group Head Temp
 

A PID would only adequately provide a starting temperature for such a small machine. The boiler is so small that no matter how much programming you do the temp will drop significantly through the course of the shot as cold water gets pumped into the boiler. Save the $150 and put it towards a machine upgrade or the next time your car breaks down :) That's not a diss to the machine (I love my Ec155) but let's just say ya wouldn't drop a 5 liter engine in a '99 Hyundai... partially because it wouldn't fit.

Edit: If you do want to make some mods to the machine, there are a lot easier, cheaper, and more noticeable changes you should make before considering a PID (aforementioned grinder mod, depressurized basket, bottomless pf, steam wand swap out, etc). Tricked out cheap machines are awesome, and I've got nothing ethically against modifying to the max. From a practical perspective though, PID level money is better spent elsewhere when the machine at hand has such a small thermal mass.
Only turn the steam function on before you steam. It heats the whole boiler up, so that--in addition to your wacko thermometer--explains the high readings at the group.

 
There's a big difference between drinking coffee to wake up and waking up to drink coffee.
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CMIN
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Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,356
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Thu Sep 6, 2012, 2:46pm
Subject: Re: Delonghi EC702 Extremely High Group Head Temp
 

CoffeeSleuth Said:

Ok... I did confirm that my digital thermometer is way out of wack... Off by like almost 30 degrees, setting it to Celsius then back to F* seemed to reset the calibration..  It's about 70 degrees in my house and it's saying the ambient is 96, so yeah.  I have always left the "steam" button on because it builds temp for the steamer correct?  Should I turn it off when I go to pull the shot?  I was under the impression they were two different boilers in this model?  Maybe I'm wrong.  I will pull a shot with the steam on and the steam off and check temp using the thermometer I use for my steamed milk.  That one appears to be accurate.  Just trying to figure out why it either pulls amazing shots or so so shots.  I have a pressurized and depressurized portafilter basket.  It doesn't seem to make a difference which one I use.

Posted September 6, 2012 link

Like the other poster said, these have two thermostats for water and steaming with a small single boiler. You should be able to see and tell a difference with the baskets, non-pressurized will give you real crema and pulls provided your grind is right, the non-pressurized helps to negate deficiencies in grinding, tamping etc. If your grinder isn't up to the task your non-pressurized basket is pry pulling gushing shots with little/no crema.

But these are starter machines, there's really no consistency, hence why you can pull an ok shot and other times not. Seen that plenty of times on the Bar32. I don't know about that grinder but if there are mods for it to be stepless or grind finer, you should be able to pull better shots with the non-pressurized basket vs the pressurized one.

Nickfrogger Said:

A PID would only adequately provide a starting temperature for such a small machine. The boiler is so small that no matter how much programming you do the temp will drop significantly through the course of the shot as cold water gets pumped into the boiler. Save the $150 and put it towards a machine upgrade or the next time your car breaks down :) That's not a diss to the machine (I love my Ec155) but let's just say ya wouldn't drop a 5 liter engine in a '99 Hyundai... partially because it wouldn't fit.

Edit: If you do want to make some mods to the machine, there are a lot easier, cheaper, and more noticeable changes you should make before considering a PID (aforementioned grinder mod, depressurized basket, bottomless pf, steam wand swap out, etc). Tricked out cheap machines are awesome, and I've got nothing ethically against modifying to the max. From a practical perspective though, PID level money is better spent elsewhere when the machine at hand has such a small thermal mass.
Only turn the steam function on before you steam. It heats the whole boiler up, so that--in addition to your wacko thermometer--explains the high readings at the group.

Posted September 6, 2012 link

Yeh guy I know pid'd an Ec155, didn't really make a difference, waste of money imo but was his choice. The boilers are just too small that even pid'd cool water being drawn in still negates the pid and causes fast drastic temp difference these small boiler machines are known for. I was going to do it on my bar32 but felt it wasn't worth it. I did a few other things to my bar32 (depressurized etc), great start machines, but vs my CC1 no comparison. Now that machine has a PID with full control, but in this price range and above your getting the larger metal builds and boilers etc that give accurate temps and stability.... but of course cost a lot more.
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Nickfrogger
Senior Member
Nickfrogger
Joined: 26 Nov 2010
Posts: 201
Location: Spokane
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia V3 w/PID,...
Grinder: Lelit PL53, Baratza Maestro
Vac Pot: Yama TCA-5 Siphon
Drip: V60 (A red one!)
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Thu Sep 6, 2012, 2:57pm
Subject: Re: Delonghi EC702 Extremely High Group Head Temp
 

CMIN Said:

...great start machines, but vs my CC1 no comparison. Now that machine has a PID with full control, but in this price range and above your getting the larger metal builds and boilers etc that give accurate temps and stability.... but of course cost a lot more.

Posted September 6, 2012 link

Exactly. My PID'd Silvia will pull better shots any day, but those shots aren't 5 times better than the EC155's results despite the 5x greater price tag. It was worth it IMHO, but for the money, the Delonghi is a "better" machine. I don't regret the investment because it fits my needs better, but I'm back to the EC155 for a few months due to living situations and I'm at most only minutely irritated by the difference in results. Now, living without my Behmor... that's a different story :)

 
There's a big difference between drinking coffee to wake up and waking up to drink coffee.
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