RNAV Senior Member Joined: 19 Aug 2012 Posts: 24 Location: Fayette'nam, NC Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Expobar Office Lever
Posted Tue Aug 21, 2012, 6:27pm Subject: Re: Need advice: used La Pavoni Pub 2 vs. new Rancilio Silvia V3
qualin Said:
One thing I can certainly say about the Silvia or Lelit over this machine is that considerably less counter space is being used and they're both very portable machines.
Well, you hit the nail on the head. I'm currently on a business trip for the next month or so, so I called my wife and asked her to measure the counterspace where the machine would go. Turns out, I've got 16.5" clearance under the cupboard - the Pavoni's 21" tall, and removing the legs will takeoff ~4.75", leaving me with less than a quarter inch of clearance. So the lack of a place to put it is forcing me to pass.
I do appreciate all the advice, though. I'll have to look into those Lelit's. To be frank, I haven't done enough research into what other competition there is for the Silvia, seeing as how the Silvia is apparently the entry-level benchmark by which all others are judged.
sn_85 Senior Member Joined: 1 Dec 2011 Posts: 131 Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Quick Mill Andreja Premium Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Tue Aug 21, 2012, 8:23pm Subject: Re: Need advice: used La Pavoni Pub 2 vs. new Rancilio Silvia V3
qualin Said:
Oh WOW.. I would say that either one of these would be a significant step up from what you had. However, I'm going to seriously recommend the Silvia over the La Pavoni, here's why....
The La Pavoni is a commercial machine. Especially considering it has two groups. They can see a hard life in their many years of daily service. You have to keep in mind that a machine like that is designed to bang off at least 120 drinks an hour with an experienced barista behind the helm. Whereas, I'd be lucky to get six drinks an hour off off of my own Silvia!
If you look at some of the better setups on this forum you'll notice that they use commercial gear. Just because something is a commercial grade machine that doesn't exclude it from being used in a the home environment. There are a lot of advantages to commercial machines. Durability and performance to name a few. Note the Mazzer grinders for example. They are commercial grade grinders that are built like tanks. Even if one was used in a busy cafe for a while you can buy it used for cheap, replace the burrs and don't even need to worry about it breaking down because it won't.
You need to have some level of experience behind any machine. I wouldn't argue that just because a Silvia is a consumer level home machine that it's any easier to use than a prosumer or commercial grade machine. In fact it actually might be a little more difficult and finicky to use. You have to worry about temp surfing and waiting for the boiler to get up to steam temp and all that. With a higher level machine you don't need to worry about any of that. Just flush and go. With any setup (home or commercial) you need to of course know how to dial in your grinder and tamp, that doesn't change. Really that's why you see the prosumer machines like the Quick Mills, Rockets, Alex, Nuova Simonelli use commercial grade components. It lasts longer and it makes life easier. They just put commercial grade components into a smaller and sleeker package that fits right into any kitchen. I'd rather have a machine that could bang off 120 shots in an hour than one that can only do 6. Time is money and anything that makes life more efficient then I'm all for it.
Of course I'm speaking in more of general sense as the OP won't be able to fit the La Pavoni in his kitchen. However, if you can afford the space and $$$ of commercial grade equipment I say that it fits into any home perfectly.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,652 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Wed Aug 22, 2012, 5:55am Subject: Re: Need advice: used La Pavoni Pub 2 vs. new Rancilio Silvia V3
Think VERY carefully when thinking about a PID'd Sylvia new. At that price, there are several MUCH better machines for only a few $ more. I would take a used Oscar in a heartbeat over a new PID Sylvia and the Oscar will cost LESS!
The thing about Sylvia is that ..... ONCE UPON A TIME, SHE WAS THE BEST GAME IN TOWN FOR THE PRICE but that is no longer true, the price jumps on her have pushed other better priced machines into the lead position. Yes Sylvia is a solid HOME machine but no more so than others such as the one I mentioned. The Sylvia achieved her high status at a time there really wasn't any competition to her, there is now and they cost less.
You will have much more trouble getting any SBDU machine to work properly than a prosumer machine such as the Oscar. In the sub $1K market there are large differences in ease of use, consistency and features between machines and a PID is NOT a cure all, more of a band aid in a price sensitive market.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
zedex Senior Member Joined: 31 Jan 2010 Posts: 126 Location: B.C Canada Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Spaz v2 Grinder: vario
Posted Wed Aug 22, 2012, 8:00am Subject: Re: Need advice: used La Pavoni Pub 2 vs. new Rancilio Silvia V3
Yea.... this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^. No brainer.
Silvia is great but overpriced and has a lonnnnnnnggggggg learning curve and can be an absolute witch. Without a good grinder the silvia is an anchor as is any machine really, but more so the Silvia because she is so tempermental.
Madurodave Senior Member Joined: 3 Feb 2012 Posts: 141 Location: NH Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Rancilio Silvia Grinder: Baratza Virtuoso Preciso Vac Pot: Yama 5 cup Drip: Mr Coffee, perculator Roaster: HotTop B, West Bend Air...
Posted Wed Aug 22, 2012, 9:30am Subject: Re: Need advice: used La Pavoni Pub 2 vs. new Rancilio Silvia V3
My $0.02:
I bought my new Silvia in a package deal for about $450, so price was not too expensive for me. I feel I don't need a PID control. I have gotten my rhythm down for timing so I feel I am fine on that. Very consistent, tasty shots and milk drinks.
Learning curve was about 2 days so that was quick also. The Silvia is very repeatable and has been a great machine over the last 7 months.
Most of my use is just for my wife and I, so not heavy use for entertainment. I did have a dinner where there were 6 of us. The Silvia worked, but if I entertained a lot I would have bought a dual boiler for speed. My guests all really enjoyed the coffees/espressos I made.
Anyway, you have to judge your needs, space requirements etc to pick the best espresso maker for you.
Personally, I would (if you don't have already) get a good grinder, Silvia and a Hottop roaster!
Good luck!
Dave Harley rider, Espresso drinker, Primo XL grill
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,652 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Wed Aug 22, 2012, 11:15am Subject: Re: Need advice: used La Pavoni Pub 2 vs. new Rancilio Silvia V3
Dave, have you ever used a HX or DB machine or is Sylvia the peak of machines you have used? I ask not to put you down but if Sylvia is the peak, you really don't know how much harder your life is with her VS a next level machine, even for a single straight shot, let alone milk or multiple milk drinks.
Many people only need to make straight shots or one drink at a time and in that case fussing with a SBDU is not a big deal. I have several machines from a two group commercial, two single group commercial machines and a PID Sylvia and I can say without a doubt, for me, a SBDU machine is the hard road to go down while a HX or DB makes life a breeze.
If you are going to spend some good money such as a PID Sylvia, take a serious look at used machines in the next better or more class. I think it is only wise to get the most for your money, esp if you have the room to do it. Machines such as a used Oscar are in the $500 range. They don't take up much counter space at all and they are vastly more consistent and easier to use than a Sylvia.
YMMV!
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,652 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Wed Aug 22, 2012, 2:08pm Subject: Re: Need advice: used La Pavoni Pub 2 vs. new Rancilio Silvia V3
Yes it is a nice machine and that is a shipped price. Those were selling at the $1K mark, last winter, around Christmas I think, it was a limited time price and they are all gone now. The machine has been around for a while so there is a track record on the machine. for a lightly used machine with the extras, you would be VERY hard pressed to do better and I suspect that the machine in that add will sell quick.
That is not to say that good deals do not come by, they do but this one is a bit better than most. I know it is out of your price range but perhaps you might want to, oh I don't know, eat beans for the next few months to buy it. You would be WAY ahead of the game when compared to any SBDU machine.
Just saying. If you can't do it, well you can't do it!
OH, BTW and on a completely different subject. I was in Ft Bragg from Jan -76 to Aug -78. I bet things have changed! I know the post used to be open, meaning that you, me, anyone could drive on or off at any time with no guards or permits required. I am sure that it is different now!
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
Ok. after you buy the silvia, you probably have to pay some kind of tax, plus shipping. Then you will need a tamper etc etc. Its gonna cost you close to what the used La nuova will be. Doooooo IT!!!! :)
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