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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > ECM / Rocket...  
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BLrdFX
Senior Member
BLrdFX
Joined: 29 May 2012
Posts: 223
Location: Seattle Area
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: L-I
Grinder: HG-One, Kony-E, VL, Lido2
Drip: Chemex
Roaster: Quest
Posted Tue Jun 26, 2012, 9:15am
Subject: Re: ECM / Rocket Giotto User Group
 

dsblv Said:

There isn't a separate pump for autofill.  The rotary pump does both jobs.  If things don't seem normal, then I would recommend calling WLL and see what they say.

Double boiler machines are going to produce more heat than a small single boiler machine.  The Silvia only had a 10 oz. boiler, after all.

Posted June 26, 2012 link

You are correct on both counts!

WLL is pretty interested in the sound pressure level readings from this machine, which I recorded this morning, and the video w/sound that I recorded.  Now to figure out how to get those to them :-)
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BLrdFX
Senior Member
BLrdFX
Joined: 29 May 2012
Posts: 223
Location: Seattle Area
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: L-I
Grinder: HG-One, Kony-E, VL, Lido2
Drip: Chemex
Roaster: Quest
Posted Tue Jun 26, 2012, 12:37pm
Subject: Re: ECM / Rocket Giotto User Group
 

Here is a link I generated showing the Rocket sitting in it's corner of the kitchen and a couple of shots of a mod I did (pretty weak photos of mod but you'll get the idea) and a video (long download) showing/hearing the weird noise.  There is an accompanying explanation with sound pressure readings of the various tools on the machine.

http://www.mini4fun.info/Rocket/Rocket_R-58.html
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dsblv
Senior Member


Joined: 2 Dec 2006
Posts: 190
Location: Bellevue, WA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Rocket Giotto Evoluzione
Grinder: MACAP MC4
Posted Tue Jun 26, 2012, 1:02pm
Subject: Re: ECM / Rocket Giotto User Group
 

That sound definitely comes from the refill of the boiler.  Your R58 is quieter than my Evo during both brew and refill cycles.  I think your machine is operating normally.  WLL can verify.
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BLrdFX
Senior Member
BLrdFX
Joined: 29 May 2012
Posts: 223
Location: Seattle Area
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: L-I
Grinder: HG-One, Kony-E, VL, Lido2
Drip: Chemex
Roaster: Quest
Posted Tue Jun 26, 2012, 1:05pm
Subject: Re: ECM / Rocket Giotto User Group
 

dsblv Said:

That sound definitely comes from the refill of the boiler.  Your R58 is quieter than my Evo during both brew and refill cycles.  I think your machine is operating normally.  WLL can verify.

Posted June 26, 2012 link

Thanks for the input.  WLL has the video and should be reviewing it now so maybe tomorrow they will respond.  With a noise like that I thought for sure something was eating itself!  My Rancilio Silvia was much more quiet.
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BLrdFX
Senior Member
BLrdFX
Joined: 29 May 2012
Posts: 223
Location: Seattle Area
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: L-I
Grinder: HG-One, Kony-E, VL, Lido2
Drip: Chemex
Roaster: Quest
Posted Wed Jun 27, 2012, 7:15pm
Subject: Re: ECM / Rocket Giotto User Group
 

Click Here (www.youtube.com)

http://www.mini4fun.info/Rocket/Rocket_R-58.html

The pump hums quietly in the background while it's sound is almost completely drowned out by the noise that might be from a solenoid for the water fill.  Why can't it just open and shut off with a clunk instead of sitting there and buzzing like a musical instrument.  I did NOT buy an expensive Kazoo!

WLL has both of these files and is reviewing them and they will break out their sound pressure level meter to see if their machine comes up to the 92db during a brew and simultaneous fill.

I think if it is the solenoid valve they should find a quiet one  since they are pimping "The Quiet Rotary Pump".

We will see how it shakes out after WLL reviews the files and examines their Rockets.

I have way to many years in electronic and electrical construction, from rocket sleds to missile guidance systems to satellites and automotive tinkering is my hobby.  If I encountered a valve that made that kind of racket I would investigate!
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BLrdFX
Senior Member
BLrdFX
Joined: 29 May 2012
Posts: 223
Location: Seattle Area
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: L-I
Grinder: HG-One, Kony-E, VL, Lido2
Drip: Chemex
Roaster: Quest
Posted Fri Jun 29, 2012, 8:05am
Subject: Re: ECM / Rocket Giotto User Group
 

dsblv Said:

That sound definitely comes from the refill of the boiler.  Your R58 is quieter than my Evo during both brew and refill cycles.  I think your machine is operating normally.  WLL can verify.

Posted June 26, 2012 link

The Tech Support  from WLL called and suggested that I try something to isolate the origin of the noise.  They suggested that I disconnect the inlet water and just use the reservoir, so I shut off (with a ball valve) the inlet water and just used the reservoir.  As if by magic NO NOISE!!!

After reading the Owners Manual and finding out that the plumbed inlet water should not be higher than 5 Bars (72.5 psi) I figured that my 42 or 43 psi would be OK.

So it appears that the solenoid that opens and closes to allow for inlet water and not reservoir water is the culprit.  Check your Evo...
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BLrdFX
Senior Member
BLrdFX
Joined: 29 May 2012
Posts: 223
Location: Seattle Area
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: L-I
Grinder: HG-One, Kony-E, VL, Lido2
Drip: Chemex
Roaster: Quest
Posted Fri Jul 13, 2012, 12:41pm
Subject: Re: ECM / Rocket Giotto User Group
 

Right now the Rocket is packed back into it's box and waiting for UPS to pick it up.  I am letting WLL deal with the noise rather than me ripping apart a new machine to fix something that even Rocket Corporate in Milan acknowledges is not correct.  They sent me an email and verified that the noise is not correct.

Since all this started (day 1 of powering up the machine) it has operated beautifully, except the noise.  Now the brew group lever is getting sticky after 1 month of ownership.  Can anyone suggest what kind of lube needs to be put into that lever mechanism?  I like Never Seize but I am not so sure that putting that in close proximity to food s a good thing!
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Giovanni312
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Jun 2012
Posts: 8
Location: Oak Park, Il
Expertise: Just starting

Grinder: Mazzer mini
Posted Tue Jul 17, 2012, 3:31pm
Subject: Re: ECM / Rocket Giotto User Group
 

Hello all!

After trolling the formus, I made the plunge, I recently purchased a used ECM Giotto Premium from a fellow CG'er. (I had a Breville 830XL)  The machine looks great; however, I have a little concern. When I turn the machine on, I hear it cycle and it will eventually heat to 1.2 Bar (I upped it from .9 bar as recommended by the seller...I like latte drinks) GREAT! However, my concern is that once the heat reaches the high point of the p-stat, it will shut off and quickly (over a span of 3 min.) drop .3 bar and then the heat will kick back on, reach 1.2 bar. This process repeats itself over and over. Is this normal? I have read elsewhere that this sort of heat loss is normal due to the cycling of the water through the grouphead; however, I would feel comfortable hearing it from fellow CG'er......

Also, I don't hear any hissing or see any water so I don't think that i have a leak.
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wheels2040
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Mar 2007
Posts: 19
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rocket Cellini Premium Plus...
Grinder: Mazzer Mini
Posted Tue Jul 17, 2012, 3:44pm
Subject: Re: ECM / Rocket Giotto User Group
 

I bought a new Rocket Cellini Premium Plus V2 less than a month ago and it does the exact same thing. I thought the same as you, that something was wrong, but Seattle Coffee Gear (where I bought it) said it was normal.

Giovanni312 Said:

Hello all!

After trolling the formus, I made the plunge, I recently purchased a used ECM Giotto Premium from a fellow CG'er. (I had a Breville 830XL)  The machine looks great; however, I have a little concern. When I turn the machine on, I hear it cycle and it will eventually heat to 1.2 Bar (I upped it from .9 bar as recommended by the seller...I like latte drinks) GREAT! However, my concern is that once the heat reaches the high point of the p-stat, it will shut off and quickly (over a span of 3 min.) drop .3 bar and then the heat will kick back on, reach 1.2 bar. This process repeats itself over and over. Is this normal? I have read elsewhere that this sort of heat loss is normal due to the cycling of the water through the grouphead; however, I would feel comfortable hearing it from fellow CG'er......

Also, I don't hear any hissing or see any water so I don't think that i have a leak.

Posted July 17, 2012 link

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Giovanni312
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Jun 2012
Posts: 8
Location: Oak Park, Il
Expertise: Just starting

Grinder: Mazzer mini
Posted Thu Jan 17, 2013, 8:23pm
Subject: Re: ECM / Rocket Giotto User Group
 

Hello fellow ECM Giotto owners. I have enjoyed the last 7 months getting to know my machine. This past weekend, I descaled and back flushed the machine. Recently, I noticed that the at the end of a shot, the discharge pressure, although historically very powerful, lacked any sort of meaningful back pressure, hence the reason for descaling. Things have slowly deteriorated since then.....

The machine turns on; however, it won't come to pressure. Specially, the gauge remains at zero, but the machine is hot to the touch. I pull the lever and the pump doesn't turn on. I scratch my head! Turn the machine off, then on again. The pstat turns the heating element on, the gauge reaches the set .9 bar. I pull one shot. Then the heating element doesn't kick back on, pressure falls to zero, pull lever, no pump......

Any ideas? Could it be a pump? Pstat? Circuit board? I would like to take a stab at repairing it before taking it to a local shop.
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