2melow Senior Member Joined: 12 Jun 2012 Posts: 2 Location: Fort Collins CO USA Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Tue Jun 12, 2012, 10:42am Subject: Machine for small office - 20-40 pulls a day
Hi All,
What started out as three of us in an office which has grown to 15 and we are still using my Racilio Silvia I brought in from home. One testament is the Silvia has been great up until we had a about 10 people in here and no issues in 4 years. It just can't keep up making 6-8 drinks in a row.
We need something bigger and dual boilers I believe now.
We'd like to keep it at $1800 or less with a grinder. Some of the guys want super automatic, but I prefer pulling my own shots old school. I know more than a few super auto's that died after a year or two.
So far I've been looking at Expobar Brutus and totally different direction the Breville BES900XL Semi Automatic Espresso Machine. The Breville looks like its getting great reviews but long term durability has me a bit hesitant. Any other machines we should be looking at and suitable for a small office that will probably grow to 20 people total in the next 3 years.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,685 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Tue Jun 12, 2012, 1:25pm Subject: Re: Machine for small office - 20-40 pulls a day
Welcome.
I am holding off advising either way with the BDB as it is so new and it is from a manufacturer who has a very bad rep for quality. It looks good on paper and the members here who have them like them a lot but I am not willing to spend that money to be a Beta tester (any product in the first year of manufacture is still working out the bugs)
A super auto will cost more than it needs to and will break down faster than it should though in a situation where people do not know how to brew espresso, it lets brain dead people make something resembling an espresso drink. You have been using a Sylvia so your people kind of know what they are doing.
A HX machine is really what you are looking for, esp if your mix is milk drinks too. You are looking in the right direction and there are several machines that you can buy that will work in that price range though if you add the grinder in too, a good grinder is in the $500 ball park, moving you down to the price range of the very good starter class HX machine, the Oscar. I had one and I was able to keep parties of 30 or so people happy though not all were drinking espresso. Oscar can be left on all day (something you really should not do with Sylvia).
We have several very good venders who advertise on our board, all of which would help you out and provide great customer service.
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,729 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Tue Jun 12, 2012, 2:30pm Subject: Re: Machine for small office - 20-40 pulls a day
I agree with Wayne. Sounds to me like you should look at HX (in part because of your budget and in part because of what you want to achieve). I think those you work with who want the superauto are more interested in convenience than quality, and it sounds like you are more interested in quality than convenience.
think grinder, then machine...rather than the other way around.
naimnut Senior Member Joined: 13 Jul 2011 Posts: 66 Location: Seattle area Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Expobar Brewtus II Grinder: Baratza Vario Drip: Braun Aeromaster
Posted Tue Jun 12, 2012, 3:50pm Subject: Re: Machine for small office - 20-40 pulls a day
I'd suggest the expobar office pulser. Very simple, E-61 type brew group, pulls great shots, endless steam capabilities, can brew shots pretty much continuously. if you like the nice lever a la giotto or brewtus you might be disappointed in the little switch that activates the pump. But the price is right and that way you could allocate sufficient funds to buy a rock solid grinder.
IMAWriter Senior Member Joined: 4 Jul 2002 Posts: 5,464 Location: Brentwood, TN Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Nothing at the moment Grinder: Vario-W,Preciso-Esatto/KyM... Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup Drip: Brazen.Chemex, Hario, Clever... Roaster: Behmor 1600, CO/UFO combo
Posted Tue Jun 12, 2012, 4:01pm Subject: Re: Machine for small office - 20-40 pulls a day
I was also thinking Oscar, as no shiny stainless sides means easier clean up, and the folks will be less intimidated. HOWEVER, as these fools might be new to proper espresso, the flushing thing may cause a problem, as some will forget. Add too that, having to fill the reservoir constantly due to excessive water usage, which is exacerbated by the flushes, unless back to back shots are pulled.
Just maybe, purchasing a BDB (I also have reservations as Wayne) with an AMEX card...which gives you another year of warranty free, could be a viable alternative. Much simpler to use for a novice, and if purchased at the right price, maybe the right machine, as it was in many ways DESIGNED for the general public as much as Geeks.
Also consider the cost of good, freshly roasted beans, as a good machine will expose crappy beans. There are several online roasters, such as Caracolillo (CCM Coffee) that offer special wholesale rates to heavy users.
A Vario W, set to the proper grind amount would also make dosing simple for all. A cheaper alternative would be the Preciso with Esatto attachment. I'm fond of the Mazzer SJ, but the coffee bar would be a MESS after a few hours, and loud to boot. Just my thoughts, and not gospel!
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,685 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Tue Jun 12, 2012, 7:39pm Subject: Re: Machine for small office - 20-40 pulls a day
Robert, I was thinking very closely to your line of thought. I had wondered a little about the flush but once you get used to it, it is natural and easy but you are right, with a lot of different people using the machine, everyone needs to be taught but then a A, B, C type SIMPLE instruction list printed and posted by the machine will help noobs get over the transition hump.
Good idea about the AMX card, a little extra time with someone else paying the bill goes a long way toward taking the risk out of that new machine. I have not use it yet though I am on the road show list (subtle hint to whoever has it, lets get moving!) The BDB does hold out some promise as to ease of use for a counter top appliance and if it works for 4 to 5 years, it likely would be a reasonable starter machine, as it looks to be.
I was also thinking along your lines with the grinder but neglected to get into details, thank you for fleshing out what I had neglected to do.
The OP does not mention if they temp surf the Sylvia right now. If they are using her stock (no pid) and NOT temp surfing, a little over temp from a neglected flush on a HX machine, likely would not have the user screaming in frustration of it not being a perfect shot anyway.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
2melow Senior Member Joined: 12 Jun 2012 Posts: 2 Location: Fort Collins CO USA Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Wed Jun 13, 2012, 9:19am Subject: Re: Machine for small office - 20-40 pulls a day
Thanks Everyone for the replies.
We're a bunch of bike racers in here or ex bike racers. Lots of us have either spent time in Europe or traveled abroad so coffee (and beer) is a big part of the office vibe so everyone knows how to properly use the Silvia. There are three french presses on the shelf and a pour over setup as well. We have a Rancilio Rocky grinder, but I'll probably bring that back home with my Silvia and get a Mazzer or another Rocky - the Rocky has been great aside from some bean clogs in the hopper every other week or so.
I'm not down with terminology but I assume HX is dual boiler?
Our beans come fresh roasted by local cycle-friendly Bean Cycle coffee shop a few blocks away. They have a Samiac roaster and Lesley roasts like no other locally. http://www.thebeancycle.com/
Now I'll do some more machine research. So many good ones with great reviews it's hard to pull the trigger!
cappuccinoboy Senior Member Joined: 27 Jun 2009 Posts: 789 Location: MILANO Expertise: Professional
Espresso: Milano pod, Milano fully... Grinder: grind on demand
Posted Wed Jun 13, 2012, 9:45am Subject: Re: Machine for small office - 20-40 pulls a day
2melow Said:
Hi All,
What started out as three of us in an office which has grown to 15 and we are still using my Racilio Silvia I brought in from home. ........................... ................................. Some of the guys want super automatic, but I prefer pulling my own shots old school. I know more than a few super auto's that died after a year or two.
..................... Any other machines we should be looking at and suitable for a small office that will probably grow to 20 people total in the next 3 years.
------------------------ I would call Chris at Chris Coffee Service and let them participate in your decision. They have experience in this and few on this forum have any real, direct experience that is applicable. I can guess what you need, but Chris and his staff will know.
a superautomatic is probably the best solution for everybody, in the specific situation and so much more if you take responsibility to keep it properly tuned.... but,hey,we are in afree world... Ciao, Pietro
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