Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Espresso Machines
Rancilio S20 three-way solenoid leaks when running either group head
Donate to Coffee Kids
Coffee Kids works with farming communities around the world, improving lives. Donate today.
www.coffeekids.org
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Rancilio S20...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Author Messages
tsruhnke
Senior Member


Joined: 20 May 2012
Posts: 19
Location: Des Moines
Expertise: Pro Barista

Posted Mon Jun 4, 2012, 2:33pm
Subject: Rancilio S20 three-way solenoid leaks when running either group head
 

Hello All!

I recently completely descaled my Rancilio S20 and it is working much better but the group heads still have low pressure and leak during the entire brew process out of the backflush/ 3-way solenoid at the same volume as the group head itself. It also makes an extremely loud buzzing/electrical pump noise when I try to pull shots.

I have attached a picture of the leak and appreciate any advice on solving this issue!

Thanks!

tsruhnke: IMAG0895.jpg
(Click for larger image)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
tracerbullet
Senior Member
tracerbullet
Joined: 13 Feb 2012
Posts: 168
Location: Saint Paul
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Tue Jun 5, 2012, 7:24am
Subject: Re: Rancilio S20 three-way solenoid leaks when running either group head
 

I'm only familiar with Gaggia home machines but when it comes down to it all machines seem to be similar in function. Since no one else has replied I'll see if I can give you a few ideas:

1) Unlikely but possible - Is this part of the overflow path? The pump will put out a higher pressure than an OPV (assuming you have an OPV, a bypass pressure regulator). That bypass has to go somewhere, to the water reservoir or perhaps right back to the pump. I guess I'm saying - depending on the plumbing path of your machine it's possible this is supposed to flow water at this time? Again this is unlikely but it's worth asking.

2) If it's a dump-off pressure release after the shot, like the stuff I'm used to, to release pressure off the puck so you don't spray coffee everywhere when you remove the portafilter - then it's simply not closing all the way. I guess this is most likely here. In that case solenoids seem to all be the same. The black plastic piece with the wires is the actual solenoid, its a coil that gets electricity sent through it. You'll likely find a single thin nut holding it to the valve. You can remove that nut and pull the solenoid from the valve. At that point normally the valve itself has a nut cast into its body, and you can remove the valve from the boiler (or remove it from whatever it goes into which is attached to the boiler). Do it slowly as there are parts inside... Inside you'll see a plunger with a rubber tip and a spring. For some reason that tip may not be sealing. Could be that the rubber is worn out, become very hard, or the opposite and has disintegrated. Could be that there's debris or scale in there keeping it from closing. Could be that the whole thing is full of scale and just not able to move freely.

I'd disassemble it, it's fairly easy. Open it up slowly and have a look inside and see what's keeping it from closing.

Hope that helps... I don't have this machine and haven't worked on one but maybe that gives some ideas if nothing else?
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
tsruhnke
Senior Member


Joined: 20 May 2012
Posts: 19
Location: Des Moines
Expertise: Pro Barista

Posted Tue Jun 5, 2012, 8:08am
Subject: Re: Rancilio S20 three-way solenoid leaks when running either group head
 

It does have an OPV on top of the boiler (descaled) which has a slow steam leak so I'm guessing the pressure is a bit too high which I will need to address. I believe this may be causing a switch to be flipping off and killing the heating element after half a day? Not sure. (Pic attached of the switch).

And it is the dump-off pressure / backflush, however it runs water continuously as I run the brew head. The brew heads both do the same thing, have way too little water come out of them to even consider pulling shots, and it makes an extremely loud noise when they are running (could be coming from the "flowmeters" that are on top of the heads and run to the copper lines of the brew heads at the boiler.

I already disassembled the solenoid (along with the entire machine (first every rebuild attempt)) and descaled everything (group heads, valves, tubes, boiler) but the "plunger" and the spring which were grimey but seemed okay. The copper valves themselves were still a little dirty (black grime like grease) when I reassembled, but mostly clean and scale free.

I have some pictures of before the machine was descaled at which time it pretty much acted exactly how it still is.

Thank you for your response!

tsruhnke: DSCN2560.JPG
(Click for larger image)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
tsruhnke
Senior Member


Joined: 20 May 2012
Posts: 19
Location: Des Moines
Expertise: Pro Barista

Posted Tue Jun 5, 2012, 8:10am
Subject: Re: Rancilio S20 three-way solenoid leaks when running either group head
 

Flowmeter

tsruhnke: DSCN2527(2).jpg
(Click for larger image)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
tsruhnke
Senior Member


Joined: 20 May 2012
Posts: 19
Location: Des Moines
Expertise: Pro Barista

Posted Tue Jun 5, 2012, 8:12am
Subject: Re: Rancilio S20 three-way solenoid leaks when running either group head
 

Switch that flips off after hours (sometime in the night). and causes the element to make a louder electrical noise when it flips

tsruhnke: IMAG0899.jpg
(Click for larger image)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
tsruhnke
Senior Member


Joined: 20 May 2012
Posts: 19
Location: Des Moines
Expertise: Pro Barista

Posted Tue Jun 5, 2012, 8:13am
Subject: Re: Rancilio S20 three-way solenoid leaks when running either group head
 

a closer view

tsruhnke: IMAG0898.jpg
(Click for larger image)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
tracerbullet
Senior Member
tracerbullet
Joined: 13 Feb 2012
Posts: 168
Location: Saint Paul
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Tue Jun 5, 2012, 10:57am
Subject: Re: Rancilio S20 three-way solenoid leaks when running either group head
 

You mentioned black / grimy,  is there a chance that substance is the rubber tip of the plunger itself disintegrating?

I recently helped my neighbor fix a solenoid on their frig that flowed water to the icemaker, and the whole time I kept thinking how similar it was to our coffee solenoids. It too had a black grime in it, which turned out to be the plunger rubber tip itself disintegrated. Well that's not the right word but - anyhow that's what the substance was. For them it kept the thing stuck closed. For you it might be enough of it missing that it can't seal?

Is the tip a nice piece of rubber or is it maybe too soft and / or not completely there any more?

If that all checks out is there chance that the wiring is wrong and it's being told to open when you really don't want it to be? Can you hear it click or feel it vibrate/ Or check it out with a multimeter to see if it's getting current?

Just some random ideas, again not knowing your equipment at all.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
tsruhnke
Senior Member


Joined: 20 May 2012
Posts: 19
Location: Des Moines
Expertise: Pro Barista

Posted Wed Jun 6, 2012, 10:10am
Subject: Re: Rancilio S20 three-way solenoid leaks when running either group head
 

I took the valve apart again to check it and compared it to the images of new parts from the internet and all looks right. As I keep messing with the machine however, I am beginning to think it may have something to do with the pump. The machine sat for about 5 years before I began work on it and I have heard that the pumps are usually shot on them if they sit for more than a couple years. I didn't suspect this before because it filled the boiler just to its auto shutoff point just fine, however could it be that it just doesn't have the power to support water flow through the group heads? (This could also be the source of the extremely loud noise I was referring to, but it's impossible to be certain).

I began taking the pump apart, which I hadn't done in my restoration process, and am stuck because I don't see any obvious issues with the exception of scale on a spring that came out of the side of it (and the two water hookups won't come off with any amount of force). I'm hoping it can be cleaned or oiled (the knob surrounded by the bearing is relatively stiff)? There are no leaks, pictures attached.

tsruhnke: IMAG0901.jpg
(Click for larger image)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
tsruhnke
Senior Member


Joined: 20 May 2012
Posts: 19
Location: Des Moines
Expertise: Pro Barista

Posted Wed Jun 6, 2012, 10:11am
Subject: Re: Rancilio S20 three-way solenoid leaks when running either group head
 

Pump motor

tsruhnke: IMAG0902.jpg
(Click for larger image)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
tsruhnke
Senior Member


Joined: 20 May 2012
Posts: 19
Location: Des Moines
Expertise: Pro Barista

Posted Wed Jun 6, 2012, 1:18pm
Subject: Re: Rancilio S20 three-way solenoid leaks when running either group head
 

Well after further further testing I have concluded that it is in fact the solenoid on both sides that is making the ridiculously loud noise. I ran the head and it makes the noise. unplugged the wires from the solenoid and the pump runs silent and no noise (and water comes only from the solenoid obviously).

I also tested just the solenoid with a screwdriver down the middle per an article that I found and it pulled on the screwdriver like it said it should so i believe it is functioning. And during this test it didnt make the noise.

I also noticed that the pressure valve is varying insanely when brewing from a couple bars up to nine).

I posted a video to youtube for a better visual:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSwDY3wpQmw
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Rancilio S20...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Stefano's Espresso Care
Repair - Parts - Sales
Factory Authorized &
Trained Technician
www.espressocare.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.442444086075)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+