truebenny Senior Member Joined: 27 Apr 2012 Posts: 21 Location: PHILADELPHIA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Presso Grinder: Hario Skerton
Posted Tue May 1, 2012, 7:56am Subject: Re: which do you prefer ?
EricBNC Said:
If you are used to a Presso then steaming milk probably was a low priority. For 1 - 2 cups, PID, adequate steam speed another couple options are Ascaso Steel and the Le'Lit PL 041 PID - both under $700 at 1st Line Equipment and possibly part of a package deal with a grinder too if you ask.
haha... i know, the milk frothing quality was terrible but i do want to make it as a priority to maybe developing my latte art skills :D as far as the machines you have mentioned, what are the advantages or quality differences between those and the CC1 and Silvia?
truebenny Senior Member Joined: 27 Apr 2012 Posts: 21 Location: PHILADELPHIA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Presso Grinder: Hario Skerton
Posted Tue May 1, 2012, 8:02am Subject: Re: which do you prefer ?
dsblv Said:
Yes, having a PID is a major plus for a single boiler. The CC1 is relatively new, so the feedback isn't consistent. You may want to talk to Seattle Coffee Gear to see what their experience has been with the CC1.
Another good PID single boiler option is the QuickMill Silvano. But, the Silvano is about $1k. Once you cross $1k, then you're in the bottom range of HX machines and close to the Breville Double Boiler. You're likely to experience serious "budget creep" as you look at all of the options over $1k.
When I bought my Silvia and PID combo, I intentionally stayed under $1k for my machine. I knew I would be upgrading in the future. So, I went with a capable machine that would give me time to figure out what my future upgrade would be. I was able to resell my Silvia after 4 years, which helped me fund my next upgrade.
If you want to take a more incremental upgrade, then the single boiler options are a great choice. If you're ready for a larger step, then moving to an HX or double boiler may make sense. Of course, you'd have to reassess your budget.
As mentioned above, do you think the Silvano is comparable to the Oscar? and for the CC1, all the comments and feedback were from SCG customers, i believe. and one of the comments also said that there was another site which carried the CC1 stopped selling it because of the bad results in their benchmarks. I am sure if you look into this forum you will find the post with many comments ( ~5 pages or so?)
truebenny Senior Member Joined: 27 Apr 2012 Posts: 21 Location: PHILADELPHIA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Presso Grinder: Hario Skerton
Posted Tue May 1, 2012, 8:04am Subject: Re: which do you prefer ?
I might perhaps save up alittle more and purchase a used commerical grinder with either of the machines, is that a better solution as to the Silvia(with PID) and the "inconsistent" CC1 ?
takeshi Senior Member Joined: 12 Oct 2002 Posts: 731 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Silvia Grinder: Super Jolly Roaster: Amaya Roasting
Posted Tue May 1, 2012, 12:17pm Subject: Re: which do you prefer ?
truebenny Said:
Choice of grinder(?): Ranclio Rockey Doserless Nuova Simonelli series; the "Grinta" or maybe the more expensive "MCI" Ascaso i-Steel I-1 Baratza Preciso
Keep in mind that my experience with the CC1 is extremely limited so take my comments with a grain of salt. The Silvia seems to be better built and seems like it would do better over the long run. I say "seems" as I'm not qualified to make such assessments. Of course, that really doesn't matter much if you end up upgrading from your first single boiler machine in the near future as many seem to. The CC1 isn't poorly built but it does have a lot of plastics and electronics that may not hold up over a long time (say, 10 years) but the jury's out on that matter since we don't have any long term data. However, the CC1 is very easy to use and isn't quite as finicky as the Silvia. It textures milk very well though the Silvia does have better steaming power (faster). CC1 switches from brew to steam much faster than the Silvia due to the steaming thermoblock. The CC1's water reservoir is a bit more of a pain to refill as it has to slide out the front. Silvia's water reservoir fills from the top and all you have to do is pull the lid and fill (if you have the clearance).
As you can see, there are pros and cons on both sides like anything in life and you have to determine where you're willing to make the compromises.
Also keep in mind that advantages can be subjective. For example, the ease of filling Silvia from above probably isn't an advantage if you're going to place your machine under a low cabinet.
truebenny Said:
I might perhaps save up alittle more and purchase a used commerical grinder with either of the machines, is that a better solution as to the Silvia(with PID) and the "inconsistent" CC1 ?
Posted Tue May 1, 2012, 2:32pm Subject: Re: which do you prefer ?
emradguy Said:
I'd advise against the Rocky. It's wide steps make it difficult, at times, to find just the right grind fineness. I had one for several years and am much, much happier now that I don't own it anymore. People seem to be happy with the Preciso. I am very happy with my Macap grinders, though they're out of your price range, and you will find others who say it's overpriced.
As with any grinder such as the Rocky, one needs not only to take into consideration ease of use, but build quality. The Rocky steps may be wider than a Baratza Preciso grinder, but when you see the build quality, there is also a difference. As for the Rocky, there is a workaround. This is not to put either grinder down, but to keep perspective on the grinders as a whole.
In addition, Macap has just launched a new series of smaller grinders called M2 - slightly lower in price. There are three models on the following page (just look for M2 in the mix of all Macap grinders:
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,722 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Wed May 2, 2012, 8:16am Subject: Re: which do you prefer ?
Thanks for pointing out build quality Jim.
Yeah, I agree, Rocky is very, very well built. I also agree one can work around the big steps - either mod or adjust dosing. I chose to work around by adjusting dose and although I was able to get great shots, I found it to be a bit of a pain. I have been much, much happier with my Macaps and, for me, I feel the increased expense is worth it.
As I've never used a Preciso, I have used two different versions if the Maestro Plus - although not for espresso since I had purchased my Rocky about 8 years ago. My current Maestro Plus is now a dedicated presspot grinder. I'm not too fond of the plastic and it seems to cheapen the machine - again, my opinion. Others here love the Preciso and swear by it...as well as Baratza's great service. However, think about this...there are threads here dedicated to problems with Baratza grinders. You don't see any dedicated threads about problems with Macaps or Mazzers or some of the commercial grinders, and you only hear bad press on the Rocky related to it's limits in grind control.
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,722 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Wed May 2, 2012, 8:21am Subject: Re: which do you prefer ?
Hey Jim,
I was just checking out the M2s on your site (through the link you provided). I noticed one of the doser models says "doserless" in the caption. It's the last one in the doser section.
Also, out of curiosity, how wide are the steps in the M2?
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