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Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
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1stline
Senior Member
1stline
Joined: 24 Jan 2002
Posts: 499
Location: Freehold, NJ USA
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Undisclosed
Grinder: Indisclosed
Vac Pot: Bodum Electric
Drip: None
Roaster: None
Posted Thu May 3, 2012, 2:22pm
Subject: Re: Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
 

dsblv Said:

I don't see an external PID as a problem.   Based on the video, it looks like Rocket intended the PID to be used to select the basic temp settings.  After setup, you can disconnect the display since it really isn't needed to operate the machine.

Synesso uses an external PID on their machines, so there's a precedent for doing this.  I've owned a PID'd machine and after awhile, I never looked at the display.  If you really look at how the machine gets used, why not make the PID external and removable?  

Before criticizing Rocket on this, I would prefer to understand the reasoning for their decision.  It's quite possible their design is correct.

Posted May 2, 2012 link

This is not to be critical, but to open the door to discussion. It is only possible based on the premise that the system (pid controller, thermocouple and placement thereof, boiler size, etc) works perfectly together. What happens if the system does not work to perfection or close to it?

One of the additional purposes of the display is to show the user any overshoots on the boiler/water temp in the coffee boiler. If the PID is set too aggressive, it will overshoot the desired temp and the user will never know. If the machine sits idle too long, the actual temperature can overshoot the desired programmed temperature. The same goes for any problems that may occur when the machine is operating way below set temp.

 
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1st-line Equipment, LLC
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SteamPunk
Senior Member
SteamPunk
Joined: 4 Feb 2011
Posts: 47
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto2,  VFA...
Grinder: Compak K3 'touch'
Roaster: Behmore 1600
Posted Thu May 10, 2012, 4:55pm
Subject: Re: Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
 

I prefer the idea of having the PID visable to monitor the two
boiler temperatures at all times.
I guess it's a matter of your idea of esthetics, but I like the looks
of the two red boiler lights and the blue glow from the PID on my
Izzo duettoII, plus, that's what grabs the attention and elicites
comments from our guests!
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PressedForTime
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Joined: 1 May 2012
Posts: 5
Location: CT
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Fri May 11, 2012, 8:33am
Subject: Re: Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
 

I am currently looking at DB espresso machines, and the ones that seem to check all the right boxes are the Alex Duetto ii and the new R58. A few highly subjective thoughts.

The lack of a visible PID is, to my sense of aesthetics, a big plus, but I understand why others like SteamPunk prefer to see it. There's something satisfying about knowing what's going on in there.  I just think our kitchen already has too many appliances with digital clocks. :)

I don't see myself playing with things like temperature-- dial in for a particular bean, then set and forget. Regarding monitoring the boilers, it seems that problems will be rare, and readily apparent in the cup when they do appear.

On the other hand, where the PID controller on the Rocket might be needed more frequently is the function to turn on and off the service boiler. This seems inconvenient. I like the idea of espresso-only on weekdays but a more relaxed pace with a milk drink on the weekends. Power-saving by switching off the service boiler would be nice. Having to connect an external PID to do this will be a pain, which means it won't be done. The Duetto's physical switch for this seems to be a better implementation. I'm not sure how large the energy saving is. Maybe its not as big a deal as I think? (Anyone know of some real-world numbers on this?)

I suspect I share a lot of the questions that others have. The $300 premium over a Duetto ii is significant if all it does is make the PID display removable. I'm looking forward to the R58's arrival so some real comparisons can be made.

 
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ee61
Senior Member
ee61
Joined: 18 Mar 2010
Posts: 41
Location: USA
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Mon May 14, 2012, 9:53am
Subject: Re: Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
 

Another video.. Here they come..  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PVtP1NRcKE
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ee61
Senior Member
ee61
Joined: 18 Mar 2010
Posts: 41
Location: USA
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Mon May 14, 2012, 11:20am
Subject: Re: Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
 

The perfect machine still eludes me.. Here is what I am struggling with concerning R58.

#1 No Giotto body style.  
#2 No Giotto body style.
#3 No Giotto body style.  
#4 Weird and awkward PID via 1980.

So, I am now looking very hard at the Evoluzione V2 because it serves 3 out of my 4 requirements.



PS.  Maybe the gorgeous Giotto could have pulled off the giant "R"


Maybe..
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Gig103
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Joined: 12 Feb 2012
Posts: 237
Location: Arizona
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: French press!
Posted Wed May 16, 2012, 11:23am
Subject: Re: Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
 

Another review, from SCG this time

click here
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PressedForTime
Senior Member


Joined: 1 May 2012
Posts: 5
Location: CT
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Wed May 16, 2012, 12:11pm
Subject: Re: Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
 

I'm glad to see the ribbon cable is gone... that just seemed too cheap. :)

WLL now has a video of the innards.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqBSfikYp7U&feature=related


Pretty... and pretty beefy.

 
'         ,-""-.
      _r-----i
      \        |-.
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ee61
Senior Member
ee61
Joined: 18 Mar 2010
Posts: 41
Location: USA
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Wed May 16, 2012, 12:40pm
Subject: Re: Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
 

I am a bit more convinced with the R58 after the nice video reviews from SCG and WLL.  I am still between Evoluzione V2 and R58.
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stevemodi1989
Senior Member


Joined: 16 May 2012
Posts: 1
Location: usa
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Wed May 16, 2012, 1:48pm
Subject: Re: Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
 

Thanks for given me a such a nice and mind blowing information. I like to know about boiler and I also like to found different types of new boilers. I always eager to know about boiler. It is very useful in factories or other product making resources. But it is very risky because it possible to blast and that time lots of things are damage. So I strongly recommended to use safely.

 
biomass boilers
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ee61
Senior Member
ee61
Joined: 18 Mar 2010
Posts: 41
Location: USA
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Thu May 31, 2012, 8:36am
Subject: Re: Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
 

Question.. Pressure with PID controller.  On Whole latte Love video review at 4:50 mark..

What is the change they are considering? Pressure from steam boiler change??

Andrew Meo will make it the "temperature" somewhere down the line in the future.. Would this be a software upgrade?

Anyone have any ideas or opinions on this?  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqBSfikYp7U
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