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Seeking advice on selecting a coffee machine
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Seeking advice...  
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satimis
Senior Member


Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 36
Location: Hong Kong
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Wed Apr 11, 2012, 6:51pm
Subject: Seeking advice on selecting a coffee machine
 

Hi all,

I'm prepared to purchase a full automatic coffee machine, beans-to-cup, to replace my Saeco semi-automatic machine, also beans-to-cup, which has been used 10 years.  I have no pre-set budget.  Price in the range of USD1,200 - 1,300 can be considered.  I'm willing paying more for a good full automatic machine suitable for home use.  Espresso and Cappuccino are my favorable taste.  However I don't expect it is over-power like buying a 12 ton lorry carrying 2 tons goods.  Quality is important.  My present coffee machine lasts 10 years.  I won't purchase coffee machine each year.

Milk tank is NOT important to me.  I never use the milk tank accessories of my old Saeco coffee machine.  It is still in the box untouched.

I have made some study on following machines;


1)
Philips Saeco HD8833/11

Philips Saeco Syntia Automatic espresso machine HD8833/11 Focus Black
Click Here (www.p4c.philips.com)

Click Here (www.pixmania.ie)


2)
DELONGHI Magnifica ESAM4200S Espresso Machine
Click Here (www.pixmania.co.uk)

DeLonghi Magnifica ESAM4200 review
Click Here (www.which.co.uk)

Click Here (www.espressomachinereviews.org.uk)


3)
How good is the Gaggia Brera Espresso Machine?
Click Here (espressomachinereviewsblogsite.com)

Gaggia Brera Review
http://www.coffeemakermachinereview.com/gaggia/gaggia-brera/


4)
Solis Master 5000 Espresso Machine

Solis Master 5000 Digital Review
http://coffeegeek.com/proreviews/detailed/master5kdigital

Click Here (www.seattlecoffeegear.com)


However it is NOT easy for me to make decision/comparison.  I read some coffee machine unable using distilled water.  It gave me a shock.  I use distilled water in my Saeco machine for ten years without problem.  It is NOT necessary clearing the piping and water tank.


Advice would be appreciated.  TIA

B.R.
satimis
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NobbyR
Senior Member
NobbyR
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 1,991
Location: Germany
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete
Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo
Vac Pot: N/A
Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe
Roaster: N/A
Posted Thu Apr 12, 2012, 4:39am
Subject: Re: Seeking advice on selecting a coffee machine
 

I'm far from being a fan of those machines. But if you really want to stay with a superautomatic, I'd recommend the QuickMill 5000A-OA, because it has a metal brew group which is much more durable than the plastic ones most non-commercial superautomatics have.

 
***
"This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee, when he was urged to ban the beverage)
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JasonBrandtLewis
Senior Member
JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,278
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Thu Apr 12, 2012, 7:34am
Subject: Re: Seeking advice on selecting a coffee machine
 

Why on earth would you want a super-automatic???

JasonBrandtLewis: puzzled.gif

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
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satimis
Senior Member


Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 36
Location: Hong Kong
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Fri Apr 13, 2012, 5:26am
Subject: Re: Seeking advice on selecting a coffee machine
 

NobbyR Said:

I'm far from being a fan of those machines. But if you really want to stay with a superautomatic, I'd recommend the QuickMill 5000A-OA, because it has a metal brew group which is much more durable than the plastic ones most non-commercial superautomatics have.

Posted April 12, 2012 link

Hi,

Thanks for your link.

The model recommended seems overpower for domestic use.

B.R.
satimis
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satimis
Senior Member


Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 36
Location: Hong Kong
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Fri Apr 13, 2012, 5:35am
Subject: Re: Seeking advice on selecting a coffee machine
 

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

Why on earth would you want a super-automatic???

Posted April 12, 2012 link

Hi,

For convenience.

My current Saeco coffee machine is NOT fully automatic.  For brewing 3/4 cups cappuccino I have to regrind the coffee beans and recharge the ground beans 3/4 times.  It is NOT convenient.

I'm now looking at Jura ENA 7
Click Here (www.jura.com)

A Swiss made coffee machine

B.R.
satimis
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,499
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Fri Apr 13, 2012, 5:46am
Subject: Re: Seeking advice on selecting a coffee machine
 

Well, you could always stop using pre ground coffee and buy a good grinder.
There is NO way to regrind coffee and pre ground is stale long, long, LONG ago.

Super automatic machines have a VERY high maintaince cost, the better the machine the more or less better the break down rate but even the best super automatic machines break down at a much higher rate than even basic semi or full auto machines.

The machine advised is NOT too much for home and you will get what you pay for...... more or less (see above statement)

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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JasonBrandtLewis
Senior Member
JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,278
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Fri Apr 13, 2012, 7:22am
Subject: Re: Seeking advice on selecting a coffee machine
 

Stephen,

Wayne has beaten me to it, but let me respond nonetheless.

satimis Said:

The model recommended seems overpower for domestic use.

Posted April 13, 2012 link

It is not -- not at all.

satimis Said:

For brewing 3/4 cups cappuccino . . .

Posted April 13, 2012 link

Stephen, do you mean "3-4," as in three-to-four cups?  Or do you mean "3/4," as three-fourths, 75%?

satimis Said:

I have to regrind the coffee beans and recharge the ground beans 3/4 times.  It is NOT convenient.

Posted April 13, 2012 link

Not only is it inconvenient, but you cannot "regrind" coffee beans and retain any hope of quality in the cup!

As Wayne pointed out, your pre-ground coffee has gone stale long ago -- see Babbie's Rule of Fifteens -- but re-grinding previously ground coffee can potentially damage your grinder.

This is a website for people who are serious about their coffee, and almost by definition, this means very few people here own super-automatics or enjoy the quality of the espresso such machines produce.  Not only are the maintenance costs of such machines very high, as Wayne has described, but the quality of the espresso made is one compromise after another.  You (the "fourth M") lose much of your control over the process, trading convenience for quality -- it's like making instant soup in a microwave:  is it going to be as good as homemade? as good as in a restaurant?  In short:  no.

This is not to say there is never a reason to have a super-auto.  Some people, and you may be one, have no problem trading away quality for convenience.  Mostly, however, the proper place for a super-auto is, for example, in a small office (where no one knows, nor wants to know, how to operate an espresso machine and no one wants to take responsibility for machine maintenance), or in airport kiosks and chains like Starbucks (where employee turnover is so great that "employee training costs" would otherwise be too high).

satimis Said:

I'm now looking at Jura ENA 7

Posted April 13, 2012 link

This is a common choice for homes here in the US.  If you have no problem trading away quality for convenience, you should enjoy the Jura.  Personally, I have never had an espresso from a super-automatic that I thought was better than "good," and certainly never one that was memorable in any way.

Cheers,
Jason

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
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ocarolina
Senior Member
ocarolina
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 59
Location: chicago suburbs
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rancilio silvia 3
Grinder: baratza preciso
Drip: french press - no drip
Roaster: behmor / iroast2
Posted Fri Apr 13, 2012, 12:14pm
Subject: Re: Seeking advice on selecting a coffee machine
 

There are people out there that like the convenience of an automatic machine.  I purchased a Rancilio Silvia after using a Saeco Vienna Deluxe for 10 years.  I am impressed with the Silvia, yet my husband still insists on using the Saeco every day, because it is easy and convenient for him to make a cup of coffee.  There are lots of people out there that like those machines, hence the reason the still sell them.  Everyone's  coffee tastes differ, and although my palate has become much more refined, I do not judge anyone who may like coffee, and simply want the convenience of an automatic machine.  My husband enjoys a cup of espresso, and would not know the difference if blind taste testing between the units.  
I say go with what your gut tells you to buy - I got so many differing opinions here on what to buy, and it just confused me.
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,499
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Fri Apr 13, 2012, 12:25pm
Subject: Re: Seeking advice on selecting a coffee machine
 

There really are people who have ease of use above all else but that is not what we as a community place high on the list, or even ON a list.

One thing you can NOT do is regrind coffee, the result is NEVER good. Another thing is you can not EVER get good coffee from stale beans, let alone ground long ago plant mulch quality grounds.

The BEST quality espresso from super auto machines is only OK at best, with FRESH, PROPERLY GROUND BEANS, tripple ground stale coffee..... no good can come from that, regardless of ease of use.

Then there is the cost of ownership. Super auto machines, have a HIGH break down factor, that is just a fact. Plastic parts, are not as durable as metal ones, a machine with a high plastic part count is going to break down more often than a counterpart made with metal. metal is also much better at thermal conduction and retention, to factors that are critical in making espresso.

YMMV!

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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CraigA
Moderator
CraigA
Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 11,176
Location: Rexdale, Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: PID/PressureMod 2001...
Grinder: BUNN FPG-2 DBC, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Bodum Santos manual, Yama 5...
Drip: Behmor BraZen, BUNN VPR-APS,...
Roaster: Refurb Behmor 1600, BBQ...
Posted Fri Apr 13, 2012, 12:30pm
Subject: Re: Seeking advice on selecting a coffee machine
 

calblacksmith Said:

Another thing is you can not EVER get good coffee from stale beans, let alone ground long ago plant mulch quality grounds.

Posted April 13, 2012 link

Yep, ya can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear lol! {;-D

 
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