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Seeking advice on selecting a coffee machine
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Seeking advice...  
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CMIN
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,362
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Fri Sep 6, 2013, 10:58am
Subject: Re: Seeking advice on selecting a coffee machine
 

ionltd Said:

Sorry if I offended anyone by opening an old thread, but wow what a slew of new condescending remarks and more insults.  Classy folks with discerning taste buds.

Yes, the rocky was recommended to me here two years ago when I purchased it.  Not in 2003.  Thread after thread preached to buy used equipment if necessary if budgets were low, but it was unthinkable not to have an acceptable grinder if you wanted to make espresso drinks in your home.  Period.

Posted September 6, 2013 link

And if you noticed, those threads are oldddddd. Not saying that to be condescending or anything. Nobody has recommended Rocky grinders in years and years except for those with a few post here and there or didn't know better. A lot of people come on here and say I bought a Rocky grinder b/c it was recommended on here, well that was b/c when they searched they saw a bunch of threads saying to do so... except didn't realize those threads were like 5+ years old. I almost bought a Rocky as I thought that was the go to grinder... but noticed how old the post were. I only joined last year but browsed for over a year before that when I was learning about coffee.

Still not sure why you bumped this thread, it's over 2 years old?

That said, even an Silvia/Rocky combo will destroy a superauto, whether straight espresso (where even $$$$$$ commercial superautos still suck), or milk drinks. Not as convenient though, I give you that. You only have a few post on here and nothing really about trying to get your setup to work, w/o a PID you have to temp surf the Silvia, the Rocky has wide steps so you have to fiddle with the dose constantly, do you wdt, do you tamp correctly (heck it took me about a month to really get tamping down right). With fresh beans, you should be making awesome shots and drinks, but it's a trade off, push button superauto will be faster however the drinks pale and the "espresso" settings are more like 10-20 second watered gushers under-extracted since they don't have the right temps or temp stability. My friends Jura C9 cost a lot more then the Saeco your buying, but coffee isn't near as good.
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emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,031
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4 x2, VDD...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Fri Sep 6, 2013, 11:24am
Subject: Re: Seeking advice on selecting a coffee machine
 

ionltd Said:

Sorry if I offended anyone by opening an old thread, but wow what a slew of new condescending remarks and more insults.  Classy folks with discerning taste buds.

Yes, the rocky was recommended to me here two years ago when I purchased it.  Not in 2003.  Thread after thread preached to buy used equipment if necessary if budgets were low, but it was unthinkable not to have an acceptable grinder if you wanted to make espresso drinks in your home.  Period.

I apologize for my mistype.  I did not spend $600 on the grinder alone, so keep your bridge.   just like the OP does not regrind used beans.  Taking the re grinding out of context to say "everyone grinds more beans" was a bit lame.

I have watched many videos from SCG as well as other contributors, however I couldn't taste the espresso through the screen on any of them.  I'll have to take the word of the folks reviewing them.

Another apology.  This one in advance to Jason (and others perhaps).  You are extremely condescending to the point that you twist what's written to make your point.  I want everyone to feel good about themselves, no matter how they seek approval.  So here goes....Jason, I admire your expertise on everything espresso.  The vernacular, equipment knowledge, pricing, timeliness, everything.....you even know what my drink needs to taste like to satisfy me.  

Good luck everyone discovering what you really need, not just in the espresso world.

Posted September 6, 2013 link

I think you stated your opinion very well.  Though some people may not like the content, it is your opinion and you are free to express it.  I think you've done that maturely.

Moving forward (yeah, I hate that phrase too, but it just works)...I think if you're unhappy with the quality you are getting from your Silvia/Rocky combo, then there is room for much improvement in your technique.  I'm not saying this to criticize you, but rather, to point out that (as CMIN said) you should be able to make really good espresso with that setup, consistently. I hope you will stick around here to get the help you deserve...even from some of the guys who in your opinion sound condescending (not saying whether I agree or disagree).  I wouldn't recommend the Rocky.  I used to own one and was happy to get rid of it. However, when it was my go to grinder I was able to make really good espresso. I was using a Silvia at the time.  I think you should take a look at frcn's article Easy Guide to Better Espresso at Home.  It is extremely well written and very, very helpful.  I've read it many times. I've not heard one (not a single one) negative comment about that article, but have recommended it maybe 50 or 100 times and heard many, many praises for it.  Go to his website, www.espressomyespresso.com look for the article (#12 under how to), read it and see if t doesn't improve your espresso too.

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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MJW
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Jul 2012
Posts: 179
Location: Silicon Valley
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Fri Sep 6, 2013, 4:18pm
Subject: Re: Seeking advice on selecting a coffee machine
 

frcn Said:

Go to the "Seattle Coffee gear" website (or search their video on YouTube) and watch them all. If what comes out of these machines qualifies as "espresso" to you that's fine.

Posted September 6, 2013 link

Randy everything you say is true (except, I think sometimes SCG does pull a good shot).  But the bullying attitude Jason has, which is that he knows what other people's drinks should taste like, is not going down well.  It hasn't gone down well and it will not go down well in the future.

If there were a feature on this forum to "delete" from my viewing all posts of certain members, I would delete Jason and move on.  Everyone else could see him but at least I wouldn't have to.  This technical feature would not by itself solve the problem.  The problem is much bigger than that and would go on.  But it would improve things a little.

At some point, the individuals who run this forum, if they do in fact have control, have to take some responsibility for the environment that they have fostered.
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MJW
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Jul 2012
Posts: 179
Location: Silicon Valley
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Fri Sep 6, 2013, 4:45pm
Subject: Re: Seeking advice on selecting a coffee machine
 

emradguy Said:

I think you stated your opinion very well.  Though some people may not like the content, it is your opinion and you are free to express it.  I think you've done that maturely.

Moving forward (yeah, I hate that phrase too, but it just works)...[some great points that put CMIN's comments in an excellent frame]

Posted September 6, 2013 link

Emradguy, you are making a sincere go at bringing this thread back on track.  That is commendable.  I particularly like how you took CMIN's comments and made them more relevant to the OP's needs.

I feel I must apologize to you because I'd like to say one more thing about the mess in this particular thread.

If we look at the very first post, the OP made a long detailed post about specific superautos he was considering.  He was asking for input on superautos.  Every post since then, including my own, have been nonresponsive to his need, and off topic.  Except for one I think it was NobbyR's, who recommended a specific superauto.

It is certainly true that the OP walked into the wrong room so to speak.  The people here don't like superautos.

But there is a significant difference between responding to the OP with:

"I see you are asking specifically about superautos.  Any chance I can steer you to a machine that may be less convenient, but can make drinks that taste significantly better?"

Versus responding with:

"Why on earth would you want a super-automatic???"

My point is that there are ways that functioning people use, to introduce a new point of view in a way that is not hostile.  I hope we can at least get a consensus on what mode of behavior is acceptable, and what isn't.  And let's get some moderators who can tell the difference.

I do not feel like anyone is ignoring this issue.  It is the elephant in the room, we all know it's there.  My sense is most people don't know how to approach it.
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frcn
Senior Member
frcn
Joined: 23 Dec 2001
Posts: 3,386
Location: Northern California
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vibiemme Domobar Double
Grinder: Mazzer Kony, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Hario, 2 Cory pots, 1 Cory...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Bunn A10 mod...
Roaster: computer controlled Hottop,...
Posted Fri Sep 6, 2013, 10:26pm
Subject: Re: Seeking advice on selecting a coffee machine
 

MJW Said:

Randy everything you say is true (except, I think sometimes SCG does pull a good shot).

Posted September 6, 2013 link

They do, but I haven't seen many I would even taste that came out of their super-auto videos. I would like to play with them to see what I could squeeze out, but I am usually up for a challenge.

I just reminded myself about a very early chapter on my website  entitled "Are you Anal Enough for Espresso?" While much of it reads as naive newbie talk to me now, there still is a ring of truth about it. Not everyone is detail oriented to deal with home espresso- It takes a long term commitment and a scientific approach sprinkled with a good helping of art.  Bottom line for me would be if anyone ever tasted a really great espresso I do not think they could live with a super auto due to the daily frustration of not ever getting anywhere never that magic taste.

If there were a feature on this forum to "delete" from my viewing all posts of certain members, I would delete Jason and move on.  Everyone else could see him but at least I wouldn't have to.  This technical feature would not by itself solve the problem.  

HB has that feature as you might know. But in the six years I have been a member there and 2,879 posts, I only have one "foe" on my list, and I do not even think he is a a member there any longer.  Without going into alt.coffee history, there is worse...  We all have  our moments.

At some point, the individuals who run this forum, if they do in fact have control, have to take some responsibility for the environment that they have fostered.

I have seen moments here that went on longer than i would have let them if I were a mod. But I was invited and served as moderator on another forum, and that only lasted a few weeks. I have little tolerance for certain behaviors. Being able to be a paid sponsor and then post claims about products in a marketplace area was one of them.

To paraphrase Graucho, "I wouldn't join a forum that would have me as a moderator."

 
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www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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MJW
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Jul 2012
Posts: 179
Location: Silicon Valley
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sat Sep 7, 2013, 1:22am
Subject: Re: Seeking advice on selecting a coffee machine
 

frcn Said:

They do, but I haven't seen many I would even taste that came out of their super-auto videos. I would like to play with them to see what I could squeeze out, but I am usually up for a challenge.

Posted September 6, 2013 link

Ah I misinterpreted, my fault, you were clearly talking about the superautos.

You know, when people talk about truly good espresso I'm never sure what they're trying to say.  I get the feeling they're trying to judge whether *I* have tasted the magic taste.

When I first joined HB there was one guy there who kept posting pictures of what the shot should look like, he wanted me to make espresso a particular way.  He preferred ristrettos of a particular dose and blend, he evidently felt that everyone else on the planet NEEDED to make shots that looked just like his.

frcn Said:

To paraphrase Graucho, "I wouldn't join a forum that would have me as a moderator."

Posted September 6, 2013 link

And that's why you would do a good job!  :)
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Giampiero
Senior Member


Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 51
Location: Bangkok
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill Vetrano
Grinder: Fiorenzato F5
Posted Mon Sep 9, 2013, 10:09am
Subject: Re: Seeking advice on selecting a coffee machine
 

satimis Said:

Hi,

Thanks for your link.

The model recommended seems overpower for domestic use.

B.R.
satimis

Posted April 13, 2012 link

The Quick Mill 05000A-OA power is max 1100 Watts.
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emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,031
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4 x2, VDD...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Mon Sep 9, 2013, 10:51am
Subject: Re: Seeking advice on selecting a coffee machine
 

MJW Said:

Emradguy, you are making a sincere go at bringing this thread back on track.  That is commendable.  I particularly like how you took CMIN's comments and made them more relevant to the OP's needs.

I feel I must apologize to you because I'd like to say one more thing about the mess in this particular thread.

If we look at the very first post, the OP made a long detailed post about specific superautos he was considering.  He was asking for input on superautos.  Every post since then, including my own, have been nonresponsive to his need, and off topic.  Except for one I think it was NobbyR's, who recommended a specific superauto.

It is certainly true that the OP walked into the wrong room so to speak.  The people here don't like superautos.

But there is a significant difference between responding to the OP with:

"I see you are asking specifically about superautos.  Any chance I can steer you to a machine that may be less convenient, but can make drinks that taste significantly better?"

Versus responding with:

"Why on earth would you want a super-automatic???"

My point is that there are ways that functioning people use, to introduce a new point of view in a way that is not hostile.  I hope we can at least get a consensus on what mode of behavior is acceptable, and what isn't.  And let's get some moderators who can tell the difference.

I do not feel like anyone is ignoring this issue.  It is the elephant in the room, we all know it's there.  My sense is most people don't know how to approach it.

Posted September 6, 2013 link

Thank you for the compliment.  Yes, I was trying very hard to get the thread back on track and more civilized.  You and I have disagreed on a couple of points, yet agreed on most (I'm referring to other threads).  I think we've both been quite civil about it, and hope it will always be that way.  Whenever I've disagreed with you or anyone else, I've always tried very hard to make it clear that I was only stating my opinion - not that the other person is/was wrong.  My comments are never meant to belittle or criticize anyone (well, maybe some are constructive criticism).

I chose only to (attempt to) redirect the discussion brought up by the person who resurrected the thread, as I thought the original topic was dead and no longer relevant.  Unfortunately, it seems he/she hasn't been back.

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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