sbtr Senior Member Joined: 2 Apr 2012 Posts: 4 Expertise: Just starting
Posted Tue Apr 10, 2012, 1:11am Subject: Looking to buy an espresso machine/grinder
So I had a starbucks superautomatic Italia Digital machine that broke. I was never really happy with the espresso it made. I messed around with the grind settings but never got very good espresso out of it.
I only need to make espresso shots. I dont make milk drinks. I drink maybe 4-6 shots a day.
So I want to replace it and based on the reviews here would a good combo be:
Gaggia 14101 Classic Espresso Machine (does it matter that much that it doesnt have a brass boiler?) and the Baratza Virtuoso Preciso (some reviews make it seem that it breaks easily)
Id be willing to spend up to maybe $1000-$1200 if it would mean a significant upgrade in espresso quality, ease of use and longevity. But I really have no idea what I am doing since I have only used a superautomatic before and that only required pressing a button to make espresso. so maybe its better to start with cheaper equipment since ima noob?
BodieWavejammer Senior Member Joined: 21 Jan 2012 Posts: 23 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Expertise: Pro Barista
Posted Tue Apr 10, 2012, 3:00am Subject: Re: Looking to buy an espresso machine/grinder
The Gaggia Classic has been around a long time with the aluminum boiler/brass group design and works well. Aluminum, brass, stainless and copper all have their own pros and cons in boiler construction.
Coffeenoobie Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 2,320 Location: PNW Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: N S Oscar Grinder: Vario W
Posted Tue Apr 10, 2012, 11:23am Subject: Re: Looking to buy an espresso machine/grinder
Dollars spent on a grinder gives you the most improvement for the buck. Experts here say they can make better espresso with a good grinder and a cheap machine than a great machine and a bad grinder. After getting my new grinder I agree with that.
You have a very good starter budget. I would get a semi auto like I did. I did not have your budget so I bought over time and have spent about 1k in hardware just not all at once.
Get a good grinder and then find a good machine with the rest. I would get a used mazzer super jolly for 300-350 range or the vario W (550) and then you have about 700 for a machine. (used grinders budget for replacing the burrs asap) You can get a new silvia around 700 or you could get a used HX like I did. (I got a single group commercial machine). You can get a used 1-1.5 k machine for 500-800 range. There is also Chriscoffee buyers remorse page to check as well as deals from users here for sale. If you have the know how and patience craigslist is good.
I found the machine I wanted from reading reviews then waited till I found it for the price I wanted to pay on craigslist. I wanted a used higher priced machine because of temp stability. A lot of posts about the starter machines are about people wanting to stabilize them or replace them because of the temp stabilization issues. Mine is not pretty but it is a tank inside.
Right now where I live there is a pretty little Bezzera BZ02S on craigslist for 600. If I was still looking for a machine I would be all over this one.
Coffeenoobie
Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder. My coffee treasure map... Click Here (maps.google.com)
JPF Senior Member Joined: 3 Jun 2010 Posts: 207 Location: NJ Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Mini Vivaldi, Pre-millenium... Grinder: Dosered SJ, Resurrected... Vac Pot: Yama Siphon Drip: Technivorm Roaster: Behmor, Poppery I
Posted Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:25pm Subject: Re: Looking to buy an espresso machine/grinder
Since you're only making espresso, you could be well served by a PID'd entry level machine or an entry level Heat Exchange (HX) (although that would stretch your budget). Because of the aforementioned temp instability on the basic Gaggias, Le"lits, etc and you do have the budget, I might recommend the PID'd versions, however, once you're spending PID kind of money, you're only a stone's throw from entry level HX. It's a tough call to make. HX will usually win the ease of use/longevity to value proposition.
The preciso is a decent grinder, but as the previous poster said, dollars spent are best spent on the grinder (even though the espresso machines get all the love and attention).
Check out the factory PID Le'Lit for $549. It was really getting some attention when 1st-Line first introduced it, but I haven't heard much of it lately. Just a good value proposition.
There's Chris Coffee's Silvano for $995 if you want to stretch the budget. It upgrades you to Quick Mill quality innards and stainless shell w/ PID temperature stability, plus on-demand steam if you ever want a milk drink for entertaining.
You might also consider the Bezzera bz02, probably the cheapest most capable entry HX.
Regardless of your machine, don't look lower than the Precisio, and you might want to upgrade the grinder in preparation for you next machine ;)
coryforsenate Senior Member Joined: 1 Dec 2011 Posts: 60 Location: College Station, TX Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Tue Apr 10, 2012, 5:37pm Subject: Re: Looking to buy an espresso machine/grinder
Really, unless you just want to spend the $700 for a NEW Super Jolly (not that they aren't spiffy as heck new), I'd get a used Super Jolly and spend the leftover money on accessories or beer. These things are built like tanks and weigh 32 pounds. Unless it was abused, a used one is (practically speaking) as good as a new one if you replace the burrs with new ones. Mine produces a great grind. New burrs are about $45 plus shipping.
Of course, if you really want to spend more money and want more bang for your buck, you could try to find a used Mazzer Major (around $450 plus new burrs).
The Buy/Sell forum here is a great place to post a "wanted" ad and Mazzer is far from the only company that produces a great commercial-quality grinder.
And the Le'Lit PL041TQE w/ the factory PID is my current machine and I love it. You can't beat the price of $549 for a PID, brass boiler, 3-way solenoid, saturated group, and traditional steam wand. The Silvia is $600 new and that's with no PID, although the boiler is 3 ounces bigger. I had a little trouble creating microfoam with the stock tip but when I replaced it with a smaller, two hole tip it became much easier. I can draw rosettas or just have a nice espresso.
JPF Senior Member Joined: 3 Jun 2010 Posts: 207 Location: NJ Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Mini Vivaldi, Pre-millenium... Grinder: Dosered SJ, Resurrected... Vac Pot: Yama Siphon Drip: Technivorm Roaster: Behmor, Poppery I
Posted Tue Apr 10, 2012, 6:19pm Subject: Re: Looking to buy an espresso machine/grinder
Cory is right. The one thing you can trust is a used super jolly unless it was used as a wrecking ball and then drug through the mud. The most it should need is a new burr set for $40.
You probably don't need doserless, especially for the price premium. The doser is a good thing on the Super Jolly to help break up any clumps. Problem with dosered, commercial equipment is 1) They retain a lot of coffee, so people modify them to allow easy sweeping of the chute and doser 2) Super Jolly dosers in particular tend not to sweep well, but there's another easy mod for that 3) they're huge grinders. The one really strong thing going for Baratza is they make sense in the home environment. Size, noise, low grind retention. I have a Vario, and I like it. Not sure I love it, but I also don't think I'll be upgrading anytime soon because of those reasons. I do yearn for a Titan Conical though.....until I think about counter space.
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