Coffeenoobie Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 2,313 Location: PNW Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: N S Oscar Grinder: Vario W
Posted Thu Apr 5, 2012, 11:41am Subject: Re: Gaggia Classic to Quick Mil Vetrano - Now I Can't get Microfoam
I learned on a steam toy with great microfoam, I now have an oscar. I feel your pain. It is slowly getting better in month 5, but I am drinking my fluffy milk so it is not wasted. And I have spent a whole day on the soap and water and that did help.
Coffeenoobie
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Posted Thu Apr 5, 2012, 11:57am Subject: Re: Gaggia Classic to Quick Mil Vetrano - Now I Can't get Microfoam
JasonBrandtLewis Said:
It takes UNLEARNING everything you knew about the Silvia, and RELEARNING for your Vetrano. Do not "adjust" your technique. Start from scratch. But right now, you are so frustrated by it, it seems to me that no matter what you do, you are going to fail! Walk away. Forget about it. Relax. Come back to it when you can stand three feet away from the machine and NOT feel angry/frustrated/upset/threatened/intimidated . . . whatever.
This is another reason the water/dishwashing soap practice helps. You just relax because it's just soap and water - no big deal. (Plus it gets your frothing pitcher really really clean ;) )
mariog7 Senior Member Joined: 7 Mar 2011 Posts: 183 Location: NJ Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Quickmill Vetrano Grinder: Vario
Posted Thu Apr 5, 2012, 4:32pm Subject: Re: Gaggia Classic to Quick Mil Vetrano - Now I Can't get Microfoam
I appreciate the advise, guys.
I just don't see how I'm going to progress. Its not like "wow, bringing the tip x amount above worked better this time. Let's keep going I'm that direction ". It just all sucks, with no positive direction to learn from.
mariog7 Senior Member Joined: 7 Mar 2011 Posts: 183 Location: NJ Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Quickmill Vetrano Grinder: Vario
Posted Thu Apr 5, 2012, 6:04pm Subject: Re: Gaggia Classic to Quick Mil Vetrano - Now I Can't get Microfoam
Ok, I'm making some progress. My boiler was set too high, so I popped the lid and calibrated the thermostat so that it kicks in at 1 bar and turns off when it reaches 1.3 bar. It was cycling higher before. And I also plugged 1 of the 2 holes on the tip.
I calmed down and realized its an art and not going to come overnight. Looks like I'm back on track.
Posted Fri Apr 6, 2012, 10:58am Subject: Re: Gaggia Classic to Quick Mil Vetrano - Now I Can't get Microfoam
It's great now thear you are back on the track. You haven't really told us some details to help you to diagonse your challenges, say milk type (non-fat, 2% or whole), size of the pitcher (12oz, 20, 32, ...) , and most importantly what does your end result looklike (watery, big bubbles, ...). Switching from a less powerful to a more powerful steaming machine requires totally different tactics. Depending on your hole configurations, stretching can be less deliverate and/or texturing can stop much sooner. If you are getting macrofoam (big bubbles), try to stretch shorter duration (say stop stretching slightly before the milk reaches 100F and stop around 140F). Several hard knocks and spinning of pitcher can further texture the milk.
I found initally using a smaller pitcher was a lot easier to learn since the tip position was less critical to create more a powerful whirlpool effect for texturing. It also allowed me to feel the temperature sooner (could be just psychological) and I could see how much I am stretching visually (see how much the surface rises). Using a larger pitcher to foam the same amount of milk, you will need to be more deliverate with the motions, plus the milk surface may not rise as much during stretching phase to know if you have added a sufficient volume of air. YMMV, but let us know how you are progressing.
Roastaman Senior Member Joined: 7 Aug 2002 Posts: 90 Location: Seattle Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Isomac TEA Grinder: Mazser Mini Roaster: HWP/I-Roast
Posted Fri Apr 6, 2012, 3:38pm Subject: Re: Gaggia Classic to Quick Mil Vetrano - Now I Can't get Microfoam
I had the same issues when I went from a Gaggia Dandy to an Isomac TEA. The Gaggia does microfoam like none other, it just can't do it in anything but a small pitcher. I still have issues even with a lower boiler setting. I broke a toothpick off into one of the steam tip holes so I had only one hole. Then I tried a couple differnt tips and found a tip with a single hole. I've never mastered the multi-tip wand. I suppose I'll have to if I ever move up to a LaSpaz. I am happy you found that toning down the steam pressure helped. Plug a hole with a toothpick, they are easy to remove.
BodieWavejammer Senior Member Joined: 21 Jan 2012 Posts: 23 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Expertise: Pro Barista
Posted Sat Apr 7, 2012, 5:05am Subject: Re: Gaggia Classic to Quick Mil Vetrano - Now I Can't get Microfoam
My issue with the dish detergent video/technique is that all milk types texture a bit differently and you won't be able to duplicate this with dish detergent. Anybody ever think of that detergent/water getting sucked back into the steam wand? Surely it's possible.
So many on this forum recommend newbies dialing in equipment with fresh coffee instead of old so they're not chasing their tail... one should use real milk instead of a substitute that does little good.
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,098 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Sat Apr 7, 2012, 8:41am Subject: Re: Gaggia Classic to Quick Mil Vetrano - Now I Can't get Microfoam
Bodie, you're right for a change . . . it isn't identical to using milk. But the difference -- at least in my observation -- is like driving. You need to learn how to drive a car before you learn how to race one professionally. That is, the basic technique is similar -- not exactly the same, but close enough -- that all one needs to do is "tweak" the technique when making the switch back to milk.
OTOH, when using stale coffee, the grind setting is off, the volume of crema is off (if not nonexistent), and there is little "confirmation" that one is doing it "right." It certainly won't look, "feel," or taste right. For me, at least, that is frustrating . . . so when I dial in a particular coffee, I use that coffee -- and a fresh batch, not a stale one.
mariog7 Senior Member Joined: 7 Mar 2011 Posts: 183 Location: NJ Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Quickmill Vetrano Grinder: Vario
Posted Sat Apr 7, 2012, 12:00pm Subject: Re: Gaggia Classic to Quick Mil Vetrano - Now I Can't get Microfoam
Thanks for your help, guys.
I have both a 12 and 20 oz pitcher, both cold out of the freezer. I always use 2% cold milk. The Vetrano has a stock 2 hole tip, but I purposely clogged one hole with a toothpick to slow it down. Results are mixed. Sometimes macro foam, sometimes warm milk without foam. Just all over the place.
Lesson learned - bigger is not always better for microfoam. Althought the coffee is better and easier on a HX, producing quality microfoam is much easier on a smaller SBDU! Fact.
Getting a little better, but still frustrating after spending this kind of cash on a large machine.
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