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Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
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germantownrob
Senior Member
germantownrob
Joined: 2 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,156
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar
Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,...
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Mon Apr 2, 2012, 4:58pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

shawngt2 Said:

Thanks Rob, I have checked calibration and adjusted so that at micro mid point, I am hearing the motor labour... So, as I dial up the remaining portion of that dial, I hear the motor go under more load.  As I made a coffee this morning, I did notice improvement, but not enough to get 5-6mm from top of basket after tamp.  I did that and pulled a full 2oz shot from a 18g VST in about 16seconds.  So, then I adjusted to finest setting (instead of at new micro mid point), I filled to my normal level 2mm from top of basket and got a shot in 30seconds at 5bar.  THAT, has never happened before, as I normally get the full shot in 20s, but strange how it only reached 5bar...

The coffee tasted more delicious this morning than normal from that 30s shot.  I think I'm on the right track, but I am very hesitant to adjust the burs even closer together as I would kind of get in the territory of 'void warranty' I think...

Any comments or suggestion?

P.S. I'll mention that I love the BDB, just to get the reply valid for this thread :)  I feel like I'm getting closer and closer to getting repeated good shots, but still a while away...

Posted April 2, 2012 link

There is always a bit of variation to what one person hears and another person hears when it comes to when the motor starts to labor. I have always set up my Vario's so that when the macro is at 2 I have the full micro range and never have to move the macro to the 1 position, this means micro A will almost always chock my machine.
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swimjay
Senior Member


Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 37
Location: Berkeley, CA 94708
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville BES900XL
Grinder: Baratza Preciso, Orphan...
Posted Mon Apr 2, 2012, 10:31pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

From Shawngt2:
"I did that and pulled a full 2oz shot from a 18g VST in about 16seconds."

16 seconds sounds quite fast for a fine grind, but it may have something to do with your roast/blend.  AFAIK, very lightly roasted beans typically produce sandier, less dusty grounds for a particular grinder setting, with corresponding lower back pressure and faster pours; high quality professional espresso blends often include beans which "grind finer" at a given grind setting, making it easier to come up with a grind that produces sufficient back pressure to create an easily calibrated shot--often low altitude beans, perhaps from Brazil, Sumatra, etc.  More highly roasted beans also "grind finer."

Somewhere in this thread, or maybe it's in another thread, there's a categorization of the various styles of espresso drinks.  From memory--typically a normale winds up with a ratio of about 2 ml (or, more accurately, grams) of drink for each gram of coffee, a restretto somewhere between .66 to 1.4 ml of drink for each gram of coffee, and a lungo somewhere around 3.  At two ounces of drink, you're producing about 56.5 ml of drink, well into lungo territory.  In my own experience, particularly with the stock Breville baskets, blonding, a symptom of over-extraction, with attendant bitterness, can occur well before that.  I find the VST baskets more forgiving, though requiring/enabling a finer grind.

So you might want to run a few experiments to see which ratios you really like, and don't assume that just because an 18 gram basket is designated a "double" basket, you have to pull 2 ounces.  In my own case, 18.5 g in a VST basket yields 28 to 35 grams of drink, but that's just my preference.

Definitely no right or wrong here, but it's useful to find your own personal sweet spot.
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klund
Senior Member
klund
Joined: 31 Mar 2012
Posts: 72
Location: Southern MN, USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Vario-W
Posted Tue Apr 3, 2012, 10:55am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

Feuros Said:

I also recently purchased the BDB and Smart Grinder combo.  I've been very happy with the grinder thus far.  I was really on the wall about buying it, and was very close to getting the Precisio instead.  It seems like they've now fixed all the issues with the earlier versions.  I was actually concerned I was doing something wrong as I couldn't even use the 10 or so finest grind settings without choking my machine completely.
I find myself repeatedly shifting it to a finer grind since all videos I've seen of it show them using it 2-3 ticks from the finest setting and I just can't believe that mine is that much better.
I would buy it again.

Posted April 1, 2012 link

+1

This morning was my first time to use the BDB/Smart Grinder duo. It took me three tries to even get 1/2 oz of coffee. After 7 attempts, I ended up with a cappuccino that was better than anything I'd made at home before. And it left me with a desire to do even better.

I think this is going to be fun.

My wife has been shaking her head at me non-stop since the machine arrived.

 
-- klund

Well then, you should see me without coffee.
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dagoat
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 321
Location: santa barbara, ca
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Pavoni Europiccola, BDB...
Grinder: baratza vario
Vac Pot: aeropress
Drip: manual
Roaster: cafe rosto
Posted Thu Apr 5, 2012, 7:50pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

insider question(s) for phil:

1) is the brew pump the tried and tested Ukla?
2) if so, is the pre infusion (and the nearly silent pumping that fills the reservoirs), done with the main brew pump?
the reason i ask is that i thought vibe pumps did not lend themselves to variable output pressure.
so
2a) if the pre infusion is done by the main vibe pump, then how is it's pressure modulated?

on a different tack:
this machine has surpassed my expectations to the point that i see only one possible upgrade, (given the state of the art today, anyway), and that is to go straight to the saturated brew group-class, (GS/3, Synesso Cyncra, Speedster, etc...).  i tell you, before i got this machine, i was hopeful for it, but not giving it much respect.  in fact, i was all set to buy a la spaziale, vivaldi II, (plumbed-in rotary, with PID), even at $2400.  it was not until the 30% off sale at WS where i got my BDB (brand new not refurb), for $839, that i delayed the LS vivII.  i was going to put the BDB in the family vacation home and the LaSpaz in our house.  now, i think i'm going to bypass the laSpaz altogether as i don't think other than the bling of a rotary it is a large enough step above the BDB to qualify as much of an upgrade.  one day i will own a saturated brew group-type machine (with pressure paddle), but in the mean time, there is nothing below that, to tempt me out of the BDB.

-peter
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klund
Senior Member
klund
Joined: 31 Mar 2012
Posts: 72
Location: Southern MN, USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Vario-W
Posted Fri Apr 6, 2012, 7:20am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

My scale arrived yesterday, and this morning I learned that what I eyeballed as the correct amount was 19.5 grams. A few tweaks and I was dosing 18.5 grams and pulled two shots that I will categorize as "pretty decent". Thin crema and lack of robust flavor leaves me suspicious of my less than amazing bean quality.

My first Redbird order roasted and shipped yesterday, so I'm excited for that to arrive. Now that I've taken variability out of "dose", I want to eliminate "stale beans" from my problem list.

Also, I have never personally experienced great foam, and have never come close to achieving it on my older units. Today I steamed up a pitcher of smooth, silky, glossy stuff which poured out like some kind of velvety goodness. That surprised the heck out of me.

 
-- klund

Well then, you should see me without coffee.
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GRishi
Senior Member


Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Posts: 9
Location: New Jersey
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Vario-W
Posted Fri Apr 6, 2012, 9:16am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

klund Said:

My scale arrived yesterday, and this morning I learned that what I eyeballed as the correct amount was 19.5 grams. A few tweaks and I was dosing 18.5 grams and pulled two shots that I will categorize as "pretty decent". Thin crema and lack of robust flavor leaves me suspicious of my less than amazing bean quality.

My first Redbird order roasted and shipped yesterday, so I'm excited for that to arrive. Now that I've taken variability out of "dose", I want to eliminate "stale beans" from my problem list.

Also, I have never personally experienced great foam, and have never come close to achieving it on my older units. Today I steamed up a pitcher of smooth, silky, glossy stuff which poured out like some kind of velvety goodness. That surprised the heck out of me.

Posted April 6, 2012 link

I really enjoy Redbird Espresso with this machine.  It also made dialing it a breeze on the grinder.
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Stuart
Senior Member


Joined: 9 Feb 2012
Posts: 113
Location: TX
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Roaster: Air Crazy popper
Posted Fri Apr 6, 2012, 9:25am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

In several places on this board, I've read that the grind for a double shot / double basket is very different from the grind for a single shot / single basket. I wanted to register a different experience, with the Breville double / single baskets.

I have dialed in my machines to make a 25-27 second shot with the stock double basket, and have found that if I run the Vario for half the time into the Breville single basket, tamp, and pull, I get a 25-27 second single. (The singles seem to have somewhat muted brightness compared with the doubles. With some of the SO beans I've been playing with, that's not necessarily a bad thing.)

Has anyone else experienced this? (Has anyone else even used the single basket?)
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MarcNadine
Senior Member


Joined: 22 Mar 2012
Posts: 1
Location: Austin
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: BDB
Grinder: Rocky
Posted Fri Apr 6, 2012, 9:53am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

Hello all, first post.  We just received our BDB this week, we also have a Rocky grinder.  We have already pulled the plastic from the portafilter and have started doing some sample shots in the evenings after work.  Tomorrow morning we expect to work on getting it really dialed in.  We have some Red Bird and Blue Jaguar on its way to help us out even more.  So far we really like our setup, already better than what we get from local cafes.  We haven't tried doing any milk drinks yet, may try that tomorrow too.  Luckily no big plans this weekend besides a quiet Easter so we can just be wired the whole time.

We're using the the single sided double basket and getting the first drops at about 10 seconds and 28 seconds for 2 ounces as of last night so tonight we'll try a touch finer and see how that goes.  Current beans are from a local roaster.  Crema has been nice so far and overall we're very pleased, now we just need to refine our processes more.
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dagoat
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 321
Location: santa barbara, ca
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Pavoni Europiccola, BDB...
Grinder: baratza vario
Vac Pot: aeropress
Drip: manual
Roaster: cafe rosto
Posted Fri Apr 6, 2012, 11:15am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

Stuart Said:

In several places on this board, I've read that the grind for a double shot / double basket is very different from the grind for a single shot / single basket. I wanted to register a different experience, with the Breville double / single baskets.

Has anyone else experienced this? (Has anyone else even used the single basket?)

Posted April 6, 2012 link

In the professional barista world, the generally accepted way to make a proper single shot is to make a double and drink only half of it.  IOW, even professionals have their hands full making proper doubles--to waste time trying to dial in the even-more-critical single, is time wasted--to the pro, anyway.  Come to think of it, I have a job and a wife and a child, so I don't have the time either.

-Peter
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mcknightp
Senior Member


Joined: 11 Feb 2009
Posts: 84
Location: Sydney, Aus
Expertise: Pro Barista

Espresso: LM 3 Grp
Grinder: Robur, Swift
Posted Fri Apr 6, 2012, 3:50pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

dagoat Said:

insider question(s) for phil:

1) is the brew pump the tried and tested Ukla?
2) if so, is the pre infusion (and the nearly silent pumping that fills the reservoirs), done with the main brew pump?
the reason i ask is that i thought vibe pumps did not lend themselves to variable output pressure.
so
2a) if the pre infusion is done by the main vibe pump, then how is it's pressure modulated?

on a different tack:
this machine has surpassed my expectations to the point that i see only one possible upgrade, (given the state of the art today, anyway), and that is to go straight to the saturated brew group-class, (GS/3, Synesso Cyncra, Speedster, etc...).  i tell you, before i got this machine, i was hopeful for it, but not giving it much respect.  in fact, i was all set to buy a la spaziale, vivaldi II, (plumbed-in rotary, with PID), even at $2400.  it was not until the 30% off sale at WS where i got my BDB (brand new not refurb), for $839, that i delayed the LS vivII.  i was going to put the BDB in the family vacation home and the LaSpaz in our house.  now, i think i'm going to bypass the laSpaz altogether as i don't think other than the bling of a rotary it is a large enough step above the BDB to qualify as much of an upgrade.  one day i will own a saturated brew group-type machine (with pressure paddle), but in the mean time, there is nothing below that, to tempt me out of the BDB.

-peter

Posted April 5, 2012 link

Hi Peter

Yes it is an Ulka pump.
Yes, the brew boiler pump does deliver the pre-infusion.
The abiltiy to adjust pre-infusion pressure using a vibe pump is part of a patent we've lodged on how this is achieved.
Saturated group? Why? Oh yeah, greater temp stability.......I've owned both LM & Synesso 3 grp machines & was an early adopter of the Scace devices (I & II) & I can tell you that the BDB is more capable of delivering brew water that is in a much tighter range than any saturated grp machine I've ever tested. BDB units from production that I've tested have even exceeded the WBC temp stabilty test protocol for 14 consecutive shots. I'm sure you've all read MP's initial review.

Cheers, Phil
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