And that's probably the only sensible answer to such a question. There is so much variation among both HX and DB designs, that the differences within those machines types probably outweigh the differences between them. There are HXs and DBs with thermosyphon, some without, some with pre infusion, some without...
One overall difference between the two types of machines that has not been discussed and that affects user friendliness is the technological complexity of the machine and the resulting maintenance requirements. HXs are simpler machines - fewer parts, fewer electronics, and more space inside. No matter how reliable a machine you buy, you will have to open it up at some point and do some work on it. I used to have a BrewtusII (which I loved), but opening it up and crawling around among that insulation trying to get a wrench or fingers at parts was not my idea of fun. I subsequently moved to an HX, which is no more difficult to use than my Brewtus (in fact, my wife finds it easier). Then there is the contentious issue of using water that sits in a hot metal boiler (DB) versus using water that is more frequently replaced (HX). If you have an interest or concern (I know that many people do not) about these types of water issues, then HX is the better choice.
Finally, not all HXs work the same. Some can be tuned to require almost no flush (like the La Cimbali Junior); some have such a quick recovery (like the Elektra Semiautomatica) that they work very well using a flush-and-go method where you flush 2-3oz to cover the range from hot to less-hot and then pull the shot. Using this type of HX is therefore almost identical to using most DBs, except that the DB flush of 2-3oz gives a slight change from cooler to hotter, and the HX gives a slightly more dramatic change from hotter to cooler. To your wife, however, the routine is practically identical.
One final note about general differences between the two types. DBs are better than many HXs for long ristrettos - HXs tend to increase the temp of the water over the duration of a long ristrettos where a DB would not. Of course, this is not true of all HXs (like a big La Cimbali).
The routine used for any machine quickly becomes natural; it's the requirements for descaling, keeping the brew path clean, maintaining, and fixing that I find to be the real burden with a machine. After the first 3 years, my DB lost a lot of its shine. At the 5-year point silicone tubing became brittle and started to crack; temp sensors broke down, bizarre electronic issues crop up...I started to spend more time fixing than brewing.
Posted Fri Mar 2, 2012, 7:43am Subject: Re: One more time - HX vs DB
As someone who is waiting to find a good deal on a used espresso machine to replace my Gaggia Espresso, it seems like it might make sense to look for a HX and not a DB - just for the relative ease of having to do work on it to get it properly working again?
Posted Fri Mar 2, 2012, 2:09pm Subject: Re: One more time - HX vs DB
MarkPod Said:
And that's probably the only sensible answer to such a question. There is so much variation among both HX and DB designs, that the differences within those machines types probably outweigh the differences between them. There are HXs and DBs with thermosyphon, some without, some with pre infusion, some without...
That's all true, but the test in question was meant to answer a very specific question regarding intra-shot temp curves. The two blends that were used are designed by their (expert) creators for best performance with an HX hump in one case and humpless extraction in the other. When used in two very high quality espresso machines, one humped and the other humpless, expert tasters didn't find a correlation between the quality of the cups pulled in either machine and the design of the blends.
The roasters convinced themselves that their blends were ideal for particular forms of extraction, but the blind testers didn't tind the match. This is the trouble with science, it finds that so many things we believe to be true simply aren't.
That's worth bearing in mind when we collect data. There are lots of things that we may think important that really aren't. But you don't know which data are of what nature until you test. And retest, and retest some more.
Now a blind test like that on lesser machines might show different results, but then again it may not. It depends.
"I've Scaced many HX/E61 machines, seeing shot variances of up to 8-10F or more. [The BDB] stays within 1F." - Mark Prince
Posted Fri Mar 2, 2012, 2:30pm Subject: Re: One more time - HX vs DB
BubbaDude Said:
That's worth bearing in mind when we collect data. There are lots of things that we may think important that really aren't. But you don't know which data are of what nature until you test. And retest, and retest some more.
Now a blind test like that on lesser machines might show different results, but then again it may not. It depends.
I think we are on the same page with this. I'd like to add that when these tests are done, the potential failure to account for all relevant variables makes it difficult to say whether we are learning something or not. For example, while the HX hump is common to most HX machines, it seems that the resulting shots are not the same. So in humped HX versus humped HX, the taste is not the same. In other words, the grouphead design may well be another variable to take into consideration. And when the ultimate criterion is something challenging to agree on, like taste, then yes, it depends.
At least it gives us a lot to talk about, and at least a lifetime-worth of exploration.
Posted Fri Mar 2, 2012, 3:33pm Subject: Re: One more time - HX vs DB
The upper end machines (better HX and DB machines) are idiosyncratic. Because they have variations in how they brew: - temperature adjustment - pre-infusion - ramp-up of brew pressure differences between rotary and vibratory pumps - temperature profile differences between E-61 and "standard" groups - etc. - and the overall design and just how consistent the performance of the machine is (which is independent of HX vs. DB).
There is no question as to which design makes the best espresso. It can't be answered to any valuable level of certainty. One machine may favor a bright coffee, and the next a darker roast. Just because machine "A" created a great shot with coffee "X" doesn't mean that machine "B" can match it, and vice versa.
The most important factor here is the barista's ability to taste the espresso and use their knowledge, experience, and skill to get the best from that coffee with that equipment.
My opinion is that in the home environment, for the majority of home baristas, a quality DB is the best choice in terms of espresso consistency. Unfortunately, that also puts a larger dent in the budget because a quality DB machine will cost quite a bit more than a HX. The good news is that this segment of the market is opening up and so choices should also expand.
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