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Alex Duetto II Fumes

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tastyhouse
Senior Member

Joined: 5 Mar 2009
Posts: 45
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Tue Feb 28, 2012, 8:46pm Subject: Re: Alex Duetto II Fumes

Yeah Viernes posted a picture of his insulation with the "Aerstop" logo underneath the foil lining. He also stated that he was getting information from the gentleman who helped design the Duetto. The Guys name on the forum is DavecUK.

glcoffee
Senior Member

Joined: 15 Feb 2012
Posts: 67
Location: Los Angeles, CA & Taiwan
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Izzo Alex II
Grinder: Vario
Drip: Hario V60

Posted Tue Feb 28, 2012, 11:27pm Subject: Re: Alex Duetto II Fumes

Does anyone know if the Alex II (non-Db) have these issues? I'm receiving mine tomorrow, but probably won't have time until this weekend to plug it in.

“Some day you will be old enough to start reading fairy tales again.” C.S. Lewis, The World's Last Night ------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------ I am Taiwanese.

Viernes
Senior Member

Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 33
Location: Spain
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II
Grinder: Compak K10 Fresh
Roaster: Quest M3

Posted Wed Feb 29, 2012, 3:16am
Subject: Re: Alex Duetto II Fumes

tastyhouse Said:

Yeah Viernes posted a picture of his insulation with the "Aerstop" logo underneath the foil lining.

He also stated that he was getting information from the gentleman who helped design the Duetto. The Guys name on the forum is DavecUK.

Posted February 28, 2012 link

Please, note that Dave has nothing to do with the Duettos now. He did not choose the insulating material, and he don't know what Izzo is really using. In fact Dave recommends using other materials than rubbers to insulate the boiler as he recommends on his web. - http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/ (also it's a excellent resource for other things of the Duetto)

From some (more google) investigation about Aerstop and its rubber components, the adhesive used seems more likely the culprit that the rubber. Although Aerstop specs does not seems to be suitable for this kind of applications at all, and generally rubbers (except silicone, plus it's FDA food aproved) should be avoided to use directly in high temperature devices (it usually breakdown with time)

You american guys have luck to have Chris as the importer of the Duettos because he really cares about the issue. (testing, researching,...) You should see how much support I had with my italian seller. :( (zero)

Metatron
Senior Member

Joined: 10 Nov 2011
Posts: 46
Location: Calgary, Canada
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: BDB900
Grinder: Vario

Posted Wed Feb 29, 2012, 4:49am
Subject: Re: Alex Duetto II Fumes

glcoffee Said:

Does anyone know if the Alex II (non-Db) have these issues? I'm receiving mine tomorrow, but probably won't have time until this weekend to plug it in.

Posted February 28, 2012 link

The best way to check for this is to examine whatever insulation is on the boiler when you get the unit. If it looks the same as in the photos that Viernes has posted, then you will probably have the same problem. If so, you might be advised to remove it before use. From what I can see, the questionable insulation is a rubber foam with aluminum foil glued to it. The glue and/or the foam seem to be the problem.

Viernes Said:

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/6817/dsc02292pd.jpg

Posted February 26, 2012 link

Viernes Said:

http://s15.postimage.org/c5l5rhl7f/DSC02250.jpg

Posted February 25, 2012 link

Vivaldi
Senior Member

Joined: 3 Nov 2010
Posts: 171
Location: Minnesota
Expertise: Pro Roaster

Espresso: Spaziale Vivaldi II
Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly
Drip: Technivorm
Roaster: Hottop

Posted Wed Feb 29, 2012, 10:47am Subject: Re: Alex Duetto II Fumes

This thread might be a good method for reinsulating a Duetto: Subject: Idea for Insulating a Boiler - Baby Bottle Drying Mat

emradguy
Senior Member

Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 1,716
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II
Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,...
Drip: Espro press; Aeropress
Roaster: internet

Posted Wed Feb 29, 2012, 1:49pm Subject: Re: Alex Duetto II Fumes

Interesting thread, to say the least. I received my Duetto in early to mid December. I never noticed any issue similar to what's been described here. Since this post first began (about 3 weeks ago), I've been checking my cups diligently, particularly those on the right side of the warmer. I consider myself lucky, and can only imagine how frustrating this must be for those having the problem. I suppose, just to satisfy curiosity, I ought to take off the cover and look at the insulation on the boiler (then report back). I need to adjust my group OPV anyways. As others have said, we're lucky to have Chris in the loop on this. Assuredly, once he figures out exactly what's wrong, he's gonna have a serious talk with Izzo...and I expect the problem will disappear quite quickly.

CoffeeGeeks don't let their friends go to *$$

tastyhouse
Senior Member

Joined: 5 Mar 2009
Posts: 45
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Wed Feb 29, 2012, 2:57pm
Subject: Re: Alex Duetto II Fumes

emradguy Said:

Interesting thread, to say the least. I received my Duetto in early to mid December. I never noticed any issue similar to what's been described here. Since this post first began (about 3 weeks ago), I've been checking my cups diligently, particularly those on the right side of the warmer. I consider myself lucky, and can only imagine how frustrating this must be for those having the problem. I suppose, just to satisfy curiosity, I ought to take off the cover and look at the insulation on the boiler (then report back). I need to adjust my group OPV anyways.

As others have said, we're lucky to have Chris in the loop on this. Assuredly, once he figures out exactly what's wrong, he's gonna have a serious talk with Izzo...and I expect the problem will disappear quite quickly.

Posted February 29, 2012 link

I'd be very interested to see what type of insulation you have on your machine, and if there is any residue on the inner walls.

chriscoffee
Senior Member

Joined: 5 Mar 2002
Posts: 234
Location: Albany
Expertise: Professional

Posted Wed Feb 29, 2012, 6:52pm Subject: Re: Alex Duetto II Fumes

Well I am convinced it is the insulation. Both the machine that we reinstalled the insulation on and the new one had residue on in the inside of the glasses. I did however observe that the residue was very minimal with the machine I reinstalled the insulation on. My conclusion is that it breaks down just so much and then stops. It's as though what ever petroleum based substance the heat is driving out of the insulation runs out so to speak after a certain amount of time being subjected to the heat. Izzo has already found a solution for the insulation and expects samples this week hopefully for testing. Since I am out of machines I am trying to get them to ship me the 132 machines they have ready for me by sea and then follow up with the new insulation by air. They can pay my service techs to remove the other insulation and replace it before shipping they would welcome the O.T. Conclusion: #1 To test if your machines insulation is emitting any residue simply put a glass over the opening on the top right and leave both boilers on for 4 or 5 hours. #2 If there is a film remove the insulation by simply cutting the two ties and pulling it off. #3 While at it I would recommend cleaning the inside of the outer shell with soap and water before putting it back on. #4 Rest assuredly we will not stick our heads in the sand and hope this all blows over. #5 We will get a good replacement insulation and will supply anyone who has a problem with it. #6 If you take your insulation off I recommend you do not leave your machine on for long periods of time since I am not sure if it could affect your PID with the increase in temperature. No reason to take that chance. Chris Nachtrieb, Pres. Chris' Coffee Service, Inc. I am trying to post a couple PDF files of the insulation Izzo is considering to replace the current insulation with but I am having trouble figuring out how to up load the files and post them. In fact I have somehow managed to upload one PDF that is not viewable and now I can't remove it. ISOSOL EC - UL TEST HB.PDF

tastyhouse
Senior Member

Joined: 5 Mar 2009
Posts: 45
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Wed Feb 29, 2012, 8:58pm Subject: Re: Alex Duetto II Fumes

Chris - thank you for following up on this - Scott has been a pleasure to work with throughout this entire ordeal - I'm glad a solution is in the works. Thank you again.

sazerac
Senior Member

Joined: 20 Feb 2012
Posts: 29
Location: San Diego
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II
Grinder: Mazzer Mini Electronic type...
Drip: Bodum Santos

Posted Wed Feb 29, 2012, 9:29pm Subject: Re: Alex Duetto II Fumes

Thanks Chris for following up on this matter and being scientific about approach to find answer. My machine arrived today, before your post and I easily removed the insulation. Mine had no foil on outside, foil on side next to boiler and only one inch wide silver tape over seam on foam. Easily removed. I will keep on-time to minimum and wait for new insulation. Absolutely great customer service as advertised. Thank you.

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