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ECM Giotto Water Dripping from Steam Wand and Hot Water Tap
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > ECM Giotto Water...  
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wellespresso
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wellespresso
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 69
Location: Seattle, WA
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Espresso: ECM Giotto (2003), Silvia V1...
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Posted Fri Feb 24, 2012, 12:04pm
Subject: ECM Giotto Water Dripping from Steam Wand and Hot Water Tap
 

I bought a second-hand ECM Giotto about a month ago, and I have been working on it a bit.

What I've done is, I have descaled the machine twice, replaced the brew gasket, dispersion screen, and the vacuum break valve.

Last weekend I took what piping I could access without taking the boiler out and soak all of those in the descale solution, because I've noticed that the steam seems a bit weak, and it's definitely wet because if I take the steam tip off and turn on the steam, it drips water a little bit. I've also noticed that it drips a little bit from the hot water tap, even with the tap off.

I'm not sure what the next step should be, to diagnose and fix the problem. Do you have any suggestions?

 
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puma996
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puma996
Joined: 28 Mar 2007
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Location: Oregon City, OR
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Valentina, Expobar Office...
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Posted Fri Feb 24, 2012, 1:18pm
Subject: Re: ECM Giotto Water Dripping from Steam Wand and Hot Water Tap
 

I'm replacing the hot water tap solenoid valve in my Valentina today because it drips, and no amount of descaling and cleaning fixed it. I even took it all the way apart and discovered the internals of the brass valve had corroded just enough so the formerly smooth valve surface was pitted, allowing water to pass through.

Sometimes things like this need replacement. In both your instances, it appears the valves are leaking despite descaling. I would take them apart and inspect the internals. Perhaps taking them apart and letting the parts soak in a descaling solution will work, and maybe you'll need to scrub them. Maybe they are just worn out and need replacing.

I think you've done all you can without taking the machine apart. In my case, the hot water solenoid valve was ~$63 from the manufacturer, which isn't cheap, but isn't a bank buster.
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frcn
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frcn
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Espresso: Vibiemme Domobar Double
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Posted Fri Feb 24, 2012, 1:34pm
Subject: Re: ECM Giotto Water Dripping from Steam Wand and Hot Water Tap
 

The valves look like they can be rebuilt. There is a seal inside on the end of the stem of the valve part that the handle is attached to. There are probably O-rings in there as well. Replace them and lube with Dow111 or equivalent and they should work as new.

 
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dsblv
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Joined: 2 Dec 2006
Posts: 191
Location: Bellevue, WA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Rocket Giotto Evoluzione
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Posted Fri Feb 24, 2012, 2:01pm
Subject: Re: ECM Giotto Water Dripping from Steam Wand and Hot Water Tap
 

Since you're in Seattle, you may want to drop a note to Seattle Coffee Gear and see what they recommend.  They'll also have parts, if needed.
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wellespresso
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wellespresso
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 69
Location: Seattle, WA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Giotto (2003), Silvia V1...
Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly, Bodum...
Drip: Hario V60 Ceramic Drip Cone
Posted Fri Feb 24, 2012, 5:53pm
Subject: Re: ECM Giotto Water Dripping from Steam Wand and Hot Water Tap
 

Wow, okay, thank you all so much for the great suggestions.

The solenoid valve is expensive enough that I think I will see about taking it apart and fixing it before replacing it. Yeah, I totally get that sometimes parts just wear out, so I'll watch for that.

This is going to be my project this weekend then! I will report back...

 
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Ozark_61
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Ozark_61
Joined: 18 Dec 2004
Posts: 428
Location: Springfield, MO
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: ECM Giotto
Grinder: Mazzer SJ
Roaster: Behmor 1600, SC/TO, Poppery...
Posted Mon Feb 27, 2012, 8:26am
Subject: Re: ECM Giotto Water Dripping from Steam Wand and Hot Water Tap
 

Love to hear what you find out.  My giotto's steam wand just started leaking about a week ago so I'm sure there's some shot valve seats in there.  I think I checked a while back and couldn't find any replacements.  I'm double checking with Stefano's espresso care right now and if I hear anything good - I'll post back here.
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wellespresso
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wellespresso
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 69
Location: Seattle, WA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Giotto (2003), Silvia V1...
Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly, Bodum...
Drip: Hario V60 Ceramic Drip Cone
Posted Tue Feb 28, 2012, 3:59pm
Subject: Re: ECM Giotto Water Dripping from Steam Wand and Hot Water Tap
 

So here's what I've done:

I took out the boiler and some of the piping underneath and descaled them. I also took the hot water and steam angle stop valves out, fully apart, and cleaned those.

I believe the O ring is damaged. There was black stuff on the rod which looked like melted O-ring residue. Yuck! (Picture attached)

I couldn't find the correctly sized O-ring at Home Depot, I think it's metric at 8mm ID x 2mm thick, so I ordered 100 (smallest lot) off Amazon and they will arrive on Thursday.

So I fitted some imperial sized o-ring and put everything back together. The hot water tap stopped dripping and the steam pipe now leaks steam, probably because the O rings are too small. The steam is still wet when it comes out -- I don't have a good way to measure how wet it is, but I've had some success with making milk froth that is capable of latte art, so maybe it is drier now with the new O rings. I will have further update when the metric O rings get here.

puma996 Said:

I'm replacing the hot water tap solenoid valve in my Valentina today because it drips...

Posted February 24, 2012 link

puma996: I was not able to remove the solenoid valve, but after some thinking maybe what you mean is the angle stop valve that is on both the hot water tap and the steam wand tap (which is in the picture)? Solenoid implies electronic and I started with the intention of getting to the solenoid valve at the bottom of the machine because I didn't think much about it, haha! At least that gave me to chance to descale some more piping.

Ozark_61 Said:

Love to hear what you find out.  My giotto's steam wand just started leaking about a week ago so I'm sure there's some shot valve seats in there.  I think I checked a while back and couldn't find any replacements.  I'm double checking with Stefano's espresso care right now and if I hear anything good - I'll post back here.

Posted February 27, 2012 link

Ozark_61: If you need some o-rings, I'll have lots for sale if they fit! I also found this link to espressocare.com from HB which has just the rod with the O rings. I'm not 100% sure if it's the same size on the Giotto.

wellespresso: disvalve.jpg
(Click for larger image)

 
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puma996
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puma996
Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 161
Location: Oregon City, OR
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Valentina, Expobar Office...
Grinder: Mazzer Mini, Super Jolly,...
Posted Tue Feb 28, 2012, 4:15pm
Subject: Re: ECM Giotto Water Dripping from Steam Wand and Hot Water Tap
 

wellespresso Said:

puma996: I was not able to remove the solenoid valve, but after some thinking maybe what you mean is the angle stop valve that is on both the hot water tap and the steam wand tap (which is in the picture)? Solenoid implies electronic and I started with the intention of getting to the solenoid valve at the bottom of the machine because I didn't think much about it, haha! At least that gave me to chance to descale some more piping..

Posted February 28, 2012 link

The hot water spout on my machine is controlled by a button, not a knob, so mine uses a solenoid to control the on/off.

There is a specific surface on the inside of the valve assembly where two dissimilar metals come into contact.This surface is now pitted, so water can get through. I mistakenly assumed your hot water spout was electronic instead of a manual knob.
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frcn
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frcn
Joined: 23 Dec 2001
Posts: 3,394
Location: Northern California
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vibiemme Domobar Double
Grinder: Mazzer Kony, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Hario, 2 Cory pots, 1 Cory...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Bunn A10 mod...
Roaster: computer controlled Hottop,...
Posted Tue Feb 28, 2012, 4:31pm
Subject: Re: ECM Giotto Water Dripping from Steam Wand and Hot Water Tap
 

wellespresso Said:

So here's what I've done:

Posted February 28, 2012 link

The heavy red arrow indicates the placement of where the valve seal is usually found on these types of valves.The O-rings keep the liquid or steam from coming out the valve where the stem exits (at the knob end). The brass shaft should be hollow at the end and a rubber barrel or rod or disc goes in there. Look into the valve and you should see a narrowing where it seats. I do not think that the O-rings are the operating seal.

frcn: Untitled-1.jpg

 
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stefano65
Senior Member
stefano65
Joined: 30 Oct 2004
Posts: 1,408
Location: Eugene OR
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vibiemme,Elektra,
Grinder: Vario,Macap,
Vac Pot: not
Drip: not
Roaster: not
Posted Tue Feb 28, 2012, 4:46pm
Subject: Re: ECM Giotto Water Dripping from Steam Wand and Hot Water Tap
 

Yes the link of my web page shaft  is the correct one
the tip of the mention shaft as a teflon closing gasket in it,
however a part from the teflon piece wearing in
the most commune issue is the bras "edge", it's very thin and most of the times it crack and break

 
Stefano Cremonesi
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