Posted Sat Feb 25, 2012, 6:49am Subject: Problem with Silvia
I've had a Silvia for almost 4 years now, and it's been a great machine. About a year ago the PID crapped out on me, and so I've been using it without the PID, sadly.
Over the last few months I've noticed that I'm not getting the quality of shots that I used to. I roast my own coffee and have a Rancilio grinder, so it's not the beans. Now over the last few weeks, the pressure seems to be diminished quite a bit. I'm just not getting consistent pulls.
I've descaled regularly, and backflush occasionally. The pucks are sticking to the brew head when I loosen the portafilter. And, the pucks seem really watery. Last week I cleaned the brewhead to improve water flow, but that hasn't helped.
LurkerJohnny Senior Member Joined: 11 Apr 2004 Posts: 76 Location: Oahu, Hawaii Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Marzocco Linea 1 Group Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly Drip: Krups Moka Brew (favourite) Roaster: Quest M3
Posted Sat Feb 25, 2012, 11:38pm Subject: Re: Problem with Silvia
Were you using a filtration system for your water? One thing you can try checking is to measure how much water is coming out of the group in a given time. Try and see if someone posted that info about what it should be. Less water means you most likely have something clogged in one of the lines. Does your pump sound different at all?
I am by no means an expert at this sort of thing, just thought I'd give you something to try until the real experts chime in.
Posted Sun Feb 26, 2012, 5:05am Subject: Re: Problem with Silvia
I have the same combo as you, Silvia with Rocky grinder. A year ago the coffee started tasting weird too, and after some cleaning descaling and back flushing of the machine it turned out that the grinder was the culprit! So might be worth taking it apart for a good clean (even with new beans, it was filled with disgusting leftovers in there) and making sure the burrs are aligned well. There's a lot of tutorials online on how this is done.
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,100 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Sun Feb 26, 2012, 8:43am Subject: Re: Problem with Silvia
Well, certainly, BOTH the machine and the grinder need routine maintenance and cleaning. Also . . . eventually . . . the grinder WILL need a new set of burrs.
jbb Senior Member Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Posts: 134 Location: Riverside, CA Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: silvia v2, la spaziale s1v1 Grinder: rocky, b. vario
Posted Sun Feb 26, 2012, 10:41am Subject: Re: Problem with Silvia
by loss of pressure do you mean steaming pressure or group head pressure?
with silvia i encountered a problem after a number of years where shots were consistently tasting "cold" and steaming pressure was reduced. extensive scaling within the boiler turned out to be the problem. once i pulled the boiler and did a full descaling silvia turned back into a little steaming monster and my normal temp surf regime worked fine again.
if you're running something like CleanCaf through your machine periodically that is unfortunately not really a descaling treatment, even if says so on the packaging. it will do a great job of removing coffee oil and gunk but won't touch calcium carbonate precipitates. For that you need to open up the boiler and treat with citric acid or some other true descaler. it's not really that hard if you end up deciding that scale might be your problem.
Posted Sun Feb 26, 2012, 2:28pm Subject: Re: Problem with Silvia
jbb Said:
by loss of pressure do you mean steaming pressure or group head pressure?
with silvia i encountered a problem after a number of years where shots were consistently tasting "cold" and steaming pressure was reduced. extensive scaling within the boiler turned out to be the problem. once i pulled the boiler and did a full descaling silvia turned back into a little steaming monster and my normal temp surf regime worked fine again.
if you're running something like CleanCaf through your machine periodically that is unfortunately not really a descaling treatment, even if says so on the packaging. it will do a great job of removing coffee oil and gunk but won't touch calcium carbonate precipitates. For that you need to open up the boiler and treat with citric acid or some other true descaler. it's not really that hard if you end up deciding that scale might be your problem.
my opinion, for whatever its worth, would be that if your steam pressure seems OK your heating element performance is likely not the immediate source of your problem. if it were me, i would check the group pressure directly using one of the relatively inexpensive guages you can attach to your portafilter; you can get them from Chris coffee for example. if you have silvia v2 or later you can, if needed, adjust the OPV so that you can generate a pressure of around 9 bars against this type of static (meaning water is prevented from flowing through the group) pull. If you can't pressurize the system to around 9 bars you may have a pump problem. but if you can then group pressure is probably not your issue either.
just as a thought, have you ever had to learn how to temp surf silvia, or have you always been able to rely on the PID? if you just wait until the boiler light goes off and then pull your shot, you're probably pulling way too hot and the espresso will taste like ****. and the flow may seem strange as the superheated water is initially converted to steam. and if you just lock and pull no matter where you are in the boiler cycle your shots will be very inconsistent.
other than that, a new set of burrs for rocky as others have suggested might also help with consistency.
once you're past this you may still want to consider the descale. after 5 yrs with silvia i was shocked at how much scale was in the boiler and how much better everything worked and tasted once I made the effort to clean it up. I use sodium citrate for descaling; other use vinegar or, if they have access to it, a sand blasting cabinet. if you hunt around on this site and the web you can find guidance. i also may have some pictures from my last descaling before retiring silvia that could be useful.
Posted Tue Feb 28, 2012, 6:16am Subject: Re: Problem with Silvia
jbb Said:
my opinion, for whatever its worth, would be that if your steam pressure seems OK your heating element performance is likely not the immediate source of your problem. if it were me, i would check the group pressure directly using one of the relatively inexpensive guages you can attach to your portafilter; you can get them from Chris coffee for example. if you have silvia v2 or later you can, if needed, adjust the OPV so that you can generate a pressure of around 9 bars against this type of static (meaning water is prevented from flowing through the group) pull. If you can't pressurize the system to around 9 bars you may have a pump problem. but if you can then group pressure is probably not your issue either.
just as a thought, have you ever had to learn how to temp surf silvia, or have you always been able to rely on the PID? if you just wait until the boiler light goes off and then pull your shot, you're probably pulling way too hot and the espresso will taste like ****. and the flow may seem strange as the superheated water is initially converted to steam. and if you just lock and pull no matter where you are in the boiler cycle your shots will be very inconsistent.
other than that, a new set of burrs for rocky as others have suggested might also help with consistency.
once you're past this you may still want to consider the descale. after 5 yrs with silvia i was shocked at how much scale was in the boiler and how much better everything worked and tasted once I made the effort to clean it up. I use sodium citrate for descaling; other use vinegar or, if they have access to it, a sand blasting cabinet. if you hunt around on this site and the web you can find guidance. i also may have some pictures from my last descaling before retiring silvia that could be useful.
Posted Tue Feb 28, 2012, 9:25am Subject: Re: Problem with Silvia
Disassemble the 3-way valve and clean that. Then do a chemical backflush. http://memweb.newsguy.com/~jenkins/silvia/ Additionally, after 4 years of regular use, you could do worse than to replace Rocky's burrs. I replaced mine twice in 6 years and noticed the difference both times.
Gig103 Senior Member Joined: 12 Feb 2012 Posts: 204 Location: Arizona Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Crossland CC1 Grinder: Baratza Vario Drip: French press!
Posted Thu Mar 1, 2012, 12:54pm Subject: Re: Problem with Silvia
jbb Said:
if you're running something like CleanCaf through your machine periodically that is unfortunately not really a descaling treatment, even if says so on the packaging.
Is that true of Dezcal too? Is there a chemical cleaner that can effectively treat scale build up before it gets too bad? My machine arrives Friday but I live in AZ with very hard (14 grain, no softener just water filtration), so I need to be very good about descaling. (Side note, I bought a CC1, not a Silvia, which has a steel boiler (if that makes a diff on chemical treatment)
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