Now there is the truth of it. In addition have a DB dual PID machine does not mean you can unscrew your head when pulling you shots. I don't agree if you need to change brew temps frequently the DB PID is deal killer. Your part of changing the PID is pretty quick. If your going up the machine responds quickly if you need to go down pull a flush like our HX brethren :). If you want it get it, I did and have no regrets.
You know those people that want to tell you how to raise your kids but have none of their own? That is how i feel when someone with a kitchen appliance tells me how the merits or dis-merits of my machine or how to use it.
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,098 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Mon Feb 20, 2012, 4:17pm Subject: Re: Need a new machine
sazerac Said:
Also, how are you actually doing your temperature surfing. Are you looking at the loss of visible steam ( record time in which this occurs) or actually checking the temperature (record time this occurs). How do you take into account the duration of time that machine has been on and the temperature of HX system rises.
The hardest thing about temperature surfing and/or the cooling flush is to explain it; the easiest thing is to do it.
As I've said in the past, think about driving a car. If you had to describe each and every step of driving, you'd go crazy! (Unlock the driver's side door. Open door. Get in. Adjust seat. Check driver side mirror for appropriate position; then, check passenger side mirror and check review mirror for same. Insert key into ignition. Turn key. Check gauges. Turn key again and start engine. Check mirrors again to see if save to proceed. Disengage emergency/parking brake. Shift car into drive. Check mirrors one more time. Turn on left turn signal. Turn steering wheel to left, lightly depress gas pedal, and ease out of parking spot and into traffic . . . )
Using an HX (or a DB or SBDU, for that matter) has its own "set of steps." These vary with machine class, as well as with the specific machine within each class. (That is, using my Elektra T1 is different than using my La Valentina, or Olympis Cafferex, even though all three are HX machines.)
For the first shot of the day on my Elektra, I walk up and push a button for a long cooling flush. As it's flushing, I grind and build my shot. If I'm pulling a straight shot of espresso, I lock and load the portafilter. Wait a few more seconds, and start the shot.
If I'm making a latte, after I build the shot, I get the pitcher of milk out of the freezer, walk back to the machine, hit another button for a very short flush. Then I lock, load, and pull shot, and while that's flowing, I steam the milk, wipe off the steam wand, and when the shot finishes, pour the milk . . .
It isn't rocket science. It's more art than that. My advice is relax and enjoy the journey. But if you're set on replacing your machine, do it! You'll be blaming the machine for every deficiency if you don't.
All else being equal, including the 4th M, there will be ZERO difference in the cup between shots pulled on an HX and on a DB. In other words, one is not automatically better than another. It all depends upon the grinder, the freshness of the beans, and you.
sazerac Senior Member Joined: 20 Feb 2012 Posts: 29 Location: San Diego Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: Mazzer Mini Electronic type... Drip: Bodum Santos
Posted Mon Feb 20, 2012, 4:30pm Subject: Re: Need a new machine
Actually it may seem like I'm AR but I'm not. You say that you push a button for "long cooling flush". All I'm asking, for clarification, is how did you previously determine how long that cooling flush actually was. What did you use, in your art of pulling shots, to determine the length of that period of time? Even if it's a very qualitative end point, what is it?
How long does it take your Ekektra to reach a steady state?
Posted Mon Feb 20, 2012, 5:35pm Subject: Re: Need a new machine
There's a good description of the cooling flush on the home-barista site. Click here.
I used a Silvia with PID for 4 years before upgrading to my Rocket. Figuring out the cooling flush was easy to do. To refine my technique, I've recently started using a "flush-n-go" technique. With flush-n-go, I grind/tamp, steam, flush then brew. I typically flush 5 oz. of water before brewing. I've achieved very consistent results with this approach and the shots taste great.
Posted Mon Feb 20, 2012, 5:47pm Subject: Re: Need a new machine
sazerac Said:
I have had my Rocket Cellini PP for almost three years. I would like to go away from HX type of machine and switch to DB. My sense is that this will reduce one variable ( water temperature) and allow me to be "right on" more times. Is this approach making any sense?
sazerac Senior Member Joined: 20 Feb 2012 Posts: 29 Location: San Diego Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: Mazzer Mini Electronic type... Drip: Bodum Santos
Posted Mon Feb 20, 2012, 7:30pm Subject: Re: Need a new machine
I would wonder why you switched to the Rocket. I realize there isn't any one answer, but you are going in the opposite direction that I may want to go and I was wondering what your reasons for switching were.
Just as an aside, the flushing method does "waste" water, although a drop in the bucket.
I'm sure he meant on a single machine, and that would be someone who knows not what they do . . . ANYONE with any inkling of how to pull shot gets much closer than 8-10°, and gets much closer CONSISTENTLY.
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,098 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Mon Feb 20, 2012, 7:41pm Subject: Re: Need a new machine
sazerac Said:
I would wonder why you switched to the Rocket. I realize there isn't any one answer, but you are going in the opposite direction that I may want to go and I was wondering what your reasons for switching were.
Posted Mon Feb 20, 2012, 8:41pm Subject: Re: Need a new machine
sazerac Said:
I would wonder why you switched to the Rocket. I realize there isn't any one answer, but you are going in the opposite direction that I may want to go and I was wondering what your reasons for switching were.
I selected the Rocket based on performance, quality and style. A prosumer HX machine will deliver performance comparable to a double boiler. I didn't need the extra complexity or size that comes with a double boiler. The build quality of the Rocket machines is superb and they look awesome. So, buying a Rocket was an easy decision.
I considered the Duetto before making a decision. They are excellent machines. The Duetto just didn't add value for me, given my requirements.
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