Posted Sat Feb 18, 2012, 12:18pm Subject: Re: Is a PID worth $200 (or, CC1 over a Gaggia Classic)
There are some really great digital appliance timers out there which are affordable and flexible in their programming (ie. M-f one time on and off, Sa+Su a different time, and much more). The problem is that with a SBDU, if you forget to fill the reservoir, or if the machine was off and you cleaned it and accidentally turned the brew switch to on, when the timer kicks in the machine will begin pumping water until it runs out and then the boiler overheats. Or the pump burns out. or the floor gets flooded. Or all the above. It has happened (not to me). So consider those factors before plugging the machine into a timer.
germantownrob Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2007 Posts: 2,039 Location: Philadelphia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,... Drip: Brazen Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Sat Feb 18, 2012, 12:32pm Subject: Re: Is a PID worth $200 (or, CC1 over a Gaggia Classic)
Gig103 Said:
I watched a temp surfing video for Miss Silvia, but it's indicator lights seem to be the opposite of the Gaggia (light on = boiler on). Is the Gaggia easy to temperature surf with? I'm hopeless at making decisions and $200 is a lot of fresh roasted coffee I can buy :)
$200 is a good amount of coin up front but two hundred spread over 3 years of use is not. I skipped the entire SBDU when making the decision to get a machine and IMO it was money well spent 3 years ago. Watch videos of the use of the machines you are considering (sounds like you already are), notice times to switch between steam and brew, steaming times, and time to temp surf, this may help you with your decision.
Intrepid510 Senior Member Joined: 30 Dec 2010 Posts: 314 Location: California Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sat Feb 18, 2012, 2:56pm Subject: Re: Is a PID worth $200 (or, CC1 over a Gaggia Classic)
What's prices are you getting on the Classic because I think you should be able to do better than only a two hundred dollar difference. You should be able to get a Classic south of $350.00, which is half of a CC1. And at that price I think it makes sense to go with that in my opinion. You can add a pid later to the Classic if you feel so inclined, and right now I would just get a Silvia V1 frothing wand for around thirty and device to measure pressure so you can tone down the opv on the Classic about twenty. That makes a total of less than 400 dollars.
I go from an espresso shot to frothing milk on the Classic in 25 seconds, which seems to be about the time it takes the CC1 to warm up or not much more. I mean it's not a real big deal.
Also, think of which one you want to wake up to in the morning, neither is super pretty, but c'mon...
***Update
Here is my temp surfing for the Classic.
Remove portafilter, place cup I intend to use under group, pull about 2.5ish ounces of water. *boiler comes now comes on
Put portafilter back in, dry out cup place back underneath, *boiler goes off
Turn on steam switch for 5-10 seconds *boiler goes on
Gig103 Senior Member Joined: 12 Feb 2012 Posts: 204 Location: Arizona Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Crossland CC1 Grinder: Baratza Vario Drip: French press!
Posted Sat Feb 18, 2012, 5:24pm Subject: Re: Is a PID worth $200 (or, CC1 over a Gaggia Classic)
frcn Said:
There are some really great digital appliance timers out there which are affordable and flexible in their programming (ie. M-f one time on and off, Sa+Su a different time, and much more). The problem is that with a SBDU, if you forget to fill the reservoir, or if the machine was off and you cleaned it and accidentally turned the brew switch to on, when the timer kicks in the machine will begin pumping water until it runs out and then the boiler overheats. Or the pump burns out. or the floor gets flooded. Or all the above. It has happened (not to me). So consider those factors before plugging the machine into a timer.
Good advice, and another reason to consider the CC1 which supposedly keeps the boiler full (even when steaming thanks to the thermoblock). I would still be careful though, you are right!
Intrepid510 Said:
What's prices are you getting on the Classic because I think you should be able to do better than only a two hundred dollar difference. You should be able to get a Classic south of $350.00, which is half of a CC1. And at that price I think it makes sense to go with that in my opinion.
Thanks for describing your temperature surfing description. My prices are based on "total cost" Gaggia + Grinder + Milk mod = $385 + $299 + $20 = $704 CC1 + Grinder package = $699 + $199 = $898 (delta $194)
So the $100 off the Preciso is making this tougher than otherwise it would be. I know I could go Gaggia + Virtuoso and save another $100 but then the comparison isn't apples-to-apples. I think in my heart I want the PID, but am hesitating because the up front cost is a bit intimidating even though I know I'm getting years of use out of them. My home refrigerator only cost $1000!!
Posted Sat Feb 18, 2012, 5:57pm Subject: Re: Is a PID worth $200 (or, CC1 over a Gaggia Classic)
One thing worth noting if you go to CC1 route (because you said speed is very important to you), even though it is definitely a solid performer. CC1 needs a longer time to heat up because of the bigger boiler and somehow from my experience, the pf never really gets very hot. Also, it can't be put on a timer even if you choose to. That's because an input from you is required to prime the machine before the heating element is turned on. Well, unless you let it stay on on the night before.
Gaggia would need a warm up time too, but it's shorter, about 15-20 min as compared to 30-45 min of CC1.
Warming time aside, I would definitely choose CC1 over Gaggia because it's really simple to do multiple drink if you ever have a guest or for your spouse. Making milk drink on Gaggia will ruin the boiler temp big time while on CC1, it's only 1-2 minute recovery, enough for you to prep your coffee. Not to mention all the features (PID, preinfusion, etc) said above..
If you can, don't go the virtuoso route because it doesn't have enough step for espresso. It might work but will add to your frustration which make you less likely to use the machine. =P
Gig103 Senior Member Joined: 12 Feb 2012 Posts: 204 Location: Arizona Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Crossland CC1 Grinder: Baratza Vario Drip: French press!
Posted Sat Feb 18, 2012, 6:56pm Subject: Re: Is a PID worth $200 (or, CC1 over a Gaggia Classic)
samuellaw178 Said:
One thing worth noting if you go to CC1 route (because you said speed is very important to you), even though it is definitely a solid performer. CC1 needs a longer time to heat up because of the bigger boiler and somehow from my experience, the pf never really gets very hot. Also, it can't be put on a timer even if you choose to. That's because an input from you is required to prime the machine before the heating element is turned on. Well, unless you let it stay on on the night before.
You can't see it, but I just grimaced. I had been told I should expect a heat-up time, but I figured I could put it on a timer and have it ready for me. A side question (i could probably search) does using the (included) bottomless portafilter help with temperature since there's less brass to heat?
It's good to know about the milk drinks, since I doubt I'd have time in the mornings but I do enjoy them so it won't go unused. I saw a video showing the recovery time and it's plenty reasonable to me.
Posted Sat Feb 18, 2012, 8:06pm Subject: Re: Is a PID worth $200 (or, CC1 over a Gaggia Classic)
Gig103 Said:
You can't see it, but I just grimaced. I had been told I should expect a heat-up time, but I figured I could put it on a timer and have it ready for me. A side question (i could probably search) does using the (included) bottomless portafilter help with temperature since there's less brass to heat?
It's good to know about the milk drinks, since I doubt I'd have time in the mornings but I do enjoy them so it won't go unused. I saw a video showing the recovery time and it's plenty reasonable to me.
I doubt about the bottomless pf reducing heat up time. Because my experience was indeed with a bottomless pf.
I know it might sound intimidating, but if you are adventurous and have a microwave, you could consider a Presso lever machine or Mypressi Twist. :P It takes about 2 minutes to boil the water and you can grind your coffee in the mean time. No heat up time. And the shot quality is pretty stellar too from what I heard,given the right grinder and coffee. It's cheaper this way too.
diggi Senior Member Joined: 28 Nov 2011 Posts: 383 Location: Halifax, NS Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Spaz vivaldi S1 V2 Grinder: B Vario, OE LIDO Drip: Chemex, Espro Press,... Roaster: Poppery I
Posted Sat Feb 18, 2012, 8:47pm Subject: Re: Is a PID worth $200 (or, CC1 over a Gaggia Classic)
Gig103 Said:
You can't see it, but I just grimaced. I had been told I should expect a heat-up time, but I figured I could put it on a timer and have it ready for me. A side question (i could probably search) does using the (included) bottomless portafilter help with temperature since there's less brass to heat?
It's good to know about the milk drinks, since I doubt I'd have time in the mornings but I do enjoy them so it won't go unused. I saw a video showing the recovery time and it's plenty reasonable to me.
Like you say, just put it on a timer. Don't steer away from milk drinks for time constraints. Wake up, pull a shot, steam milk and 4mins later you have a capp or latte and are all cleaned up (and that is me temp surfing on a silvia.....so maybe 3.5mins later for you if you get CC1).
Posted Sat Feb 18, 2012, 8:53pm Subject: Re: Is a PID worth $200 (or, CC1 over a Gaggia Classic)
diggi Said:
Like you say, just put it on a timer. Don't steer away from milk drinks for time constraints. Wake up, pull a shot, steam milk and 4mins later you have a capp or latte and are all cleaned up (and that is me temp surfing on a silvia.....so maybe 3.5mins later for you if you get CC1).
I am not sure if I got the message across the first time. The CC1 cannnot be put on timer. It won't start heating up until you press a button on the machine. To press the button, you would have to wake up and physically be there to press it. At least that's what I remember from my experience when i was using it.
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