Posted Thu Feb 16, 2012, 6:15am Subject: Re: Espresso machine arrived! (VBM Jr HX & Le'lit Grinder)
germantownrob Said:
+1, you said it so much classier then many of us can.
From what I have read here you just need to grind much finer. An espresso grinder should have no problem grinding stale beans to be able to pull a 24sec shot no problem and if it can't then it has no business being called an espresso grinder. Now when it comes to taste, well fresh is just fresh, what else needs to be said, lol.
A scale is very handy to get your dosing under control, when changing the fineness of coffee the volume does not stay constant to the weight. An 18g pile ground for drip looks massive compared to an 18g pile for espresso and this will change in appearance from bean to bean so even grinding finer to correct a 17 sec shot to make a 28sec shot can be easy to dose an extra 1-2 g to make the pile look the same. A good 1/10th g scale can be had at amazon for under $15, I like American Weigh, Click Here (www.amazon.com) , but I am sure there are plenty others to choose from.
There are so many variables to making good to great espresso that it can make you bonkers trying to make it all work. I promise it gets easier, the things I used to have to concentrate on to not screw up a shot are all unconscious acts at this point. I still screw up plenty but 98% of those screw ups are drinkable with milk.
Thank you! Yup, I went in like everyone was saying, changed the grind, and for good measure, ditched the crappy coffee. :) And, thanks for the link! Still debating within myself if I want a scale. I still need to purchase more shotglasses, a naked PF, and a knock box (don't ask how I missed this one. Still not sure.)
Posted Thu Feb 16, 2012, 6:29am Subject: FINALLY. Some progress, and the fading buyers remorse...
Ok. First, pardon my mess! I only had about an hour or two to play with the machine tonight- didn't want to clean/polish everything up before taking pictures! Was really determined to get an acceptable shot last night...
So, I dumped all the old espresso, (which if anyone is curious, was Wal Mart variety Sam's Choice espresso. Oddly enough, a little family run shop I used to help out in, used that espresso. Might explain that why sometimes the drinks were good, sometimes there were weird twangs, or a drink just wouldn't come out right...)
After turning the knob all the way to the fine side, I started trying to dial in again. Started with the double PF, but then decided that could be a waste of beans, and switched to the single.
Which, is a pain in the rear for me to use. Tamping is awkward, and etc. Ugh.
Didn't know what to expect at first. Wasn't keen on "choking the machine." then taking off the PF. But, obviously (probably, to most of you) there wasn't any hot water just hanging out in the grouphead looking to scald someone.
Took what seemed like forever... but I finally got a few dribbles in the shotglass! Happy day!
Of course, it took me almost a full minute to get to that point... but it was a shot! Not dribbles, and not black water. Cool beans.
I started getting excited. My husband was pretty entertained...
Finally, I got a shot around the 25 second mark. Had a good amount of crema while brewing (I know you can have a good shot without crema, It made me happy though, because using these beans at the shop I work at, they do tend to have crema,)
It was extremely late, but I made a drink out of this anyway. Just a small americano with some SF Torani Vanilla syrup. Near the end of the drink, it started to taste... I guess it was a touch of a sour aftertaste,]b\ because it certainly wasn't bitter. Temperature thing? OR should I not stress about this too much until I tweak the grind even more?
Cooling flush. I assumed from reading here, when to stop it would be pretty obvious, and I guess it hasn't clicked yet. When I do this, is there a recommended amount of time, or boiler pressure/brew pressure level to watch? I did notice some bubbles on the grouphead, is that what I watch, and when they stop, stop the flush?
Brew Pressure Right now, when I'm pulling a shot, it's around 10 bar. Is that okay, or is there something I need to tweak to get it back around 9-9.5?)
Haha! I did see that. Makes me VERY grateful I haven't had machine issues. My luck on the day I got the machine was so rotten, I just KNEW something would go wrong.
Thankfully, it hasn't! :)
Though I'm very jealous you're within driving distance of them!
germantownrob Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2007 Posts: 2,043 Location: Philadelphia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,... Drip: Brazen Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Thu Feb 16, 2012, 6:49am Subject: Re: Espresso machine arrived! (VBM Jr HX & Le'lit Grinder)
tina_daniels Said:
Thank you! Yup, I went in like everyone was saying, changed the grind, and for good measure, ditched the crappy coffee. :) And, thanks for the link! Still debating within myself if I want a scale. I still need to purchase more shotglasses, a naked PF, and a knock box (don't ask how I missed this one. Still not sure.)
This is just my opinion, a naked PF is a great diagnosing tool and is super cool to watch but is more useful to someone that already has a handle on grinding and dosing and is trying to improve distribution and level tamping. Might be an expense you could hold off on for a few months.
The amount of your dose and dourness of your grind in combination effects the taste of a shot, a 14,15,16,17,18,19g pull in 24sec will all taste very different from each other. Here is a short read on effect of grind and dose on shots, Click Here (www.home-barista.com) IMO a scale is very important step towards consistency of your espresso.
Posted Thu Feb 16, 2012, 7:25am Subject: Re: Espresso machine arrived! (VBM Jr HX & Le'lit Grinder)
germantownrob Said:
This is just my opinion, a naked PF is a great diagnosing tool and is super cool to watch but is more useful to someone that already has a handle on grinding and dosing and is trying to improve distribution and level tamping. Might be an expense you could hold off on for a few months.
The amount of your dose and dourness of your grind in combination effects the taste of a shot, a 14,15,16,17,18,19g pull in 24sec will all taste very different from each other. Here is a short read on effect of grind and dose on shots, Click Here (www.home-barista.com) IMO a scale is very important step towards consistency of your espresso.
Makes sense. I've honestly been putting that one off, since I have the notch in the basket.
Seems like it's not a bad investment though. And it's something I should be able to afford!
Here..
What you will need to do this You will need a scale that reads to 0.1 grams, and you will need to weigh doses to the nearest 0.1 grams For many scales, it is easier to remove the basket from the portafilter and weigh it alone. If you are starting out, it is useful to time shots and weigh them as they are being pulled. A normal double weighs about 35 grams and runs about 27 seconds, and ristretto about 20 grams and runs about 35 seconds, and a lungo about 50 grams and runs about 20 seconds. Lots of patience when starting out
So, the 35 grams for a double, is that including the basket, or do you weigh the basket first, and subtract from the total?
germantownrob Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2007 Posts: 2,043 Location: Philadelphia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,... Drip: Brazen Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Thu Feb 16, 2012, 8:13am Subject: Re: Espresso machine arrived! (VBM Jr HX & Le'lit Grinder)
Tina, some weigh the shoots as they are being pulled, so 35g would be the weight of the liquid. Doing this takes out the variable of volume, my shots are 3/4 crema at times and if I where to only think in volume when my crema hits the 2oz mark in a shot glass I might only have 1oz of liquid. Honestly weighing the extract is a great fine tuning and IMO is for being very exact for the extremely anal and experts dialing in perfection.
When first starting out I suggest just working on getting a shot in 20-35 sec (I have had some wonderful 45sec shots), there are so many variables to effect pour speed and volume that it can be over whelming, you have to walk before you can run (I guess my son never got that memo).
Grinding by volume into your basket can be a huge variable especially when switching beans and or roast degree. When sticking with the same bean you may only need to weigh once or twice and then going by volume will be very close from shot to shot but if changing the grind to effect the pour speed I advise weighing again or else you could be up dosing or down dosing as much as a gram which will effect the pour speed and taste. Do you need a scale to make great espresso? No, but with so many variables it just takes that one out of the equation.
Posted Thu Feb 16, 2012, 8:54am Subject: Re: Espresso machine arrived! (VBM Jr HX & Le'lit Grinder)
germantownrob Said:
Tina, some weigh the shoots as they are being pulled, so 35g would be the weight of the liquid. Doing this takes out the variable of volume, my shots are 3/4 crema at times and if I where to only think in volume when my crema hits the 2oz mark in a shot glass I might only have 1oz of liquid. Honestly weighing the extract is a great fine tuning and IMO is for being very exact for the extremely anal and experts dialing in perfection.
When first starting out I suggest just working on getting a shot in 20-35 sec (I have had some wonderful 45sec shots), there are so many variables to effect pour speed and volume that it can be over whelming, you have to walk before you can run (I guess my son never got that memo).
Grinding by volume into your basket can be a huge variable especially when switching beans and or roast degree. When sticking with the same bean you may only need to weigh once or twice and then going by volume will be very close from shot to shot but if changing the grind to effect the pour speed I advise weighing again or else you could be up dosing or down dosing as much as a gram which will effect the pour speed and taste. Do you need a scale to make great espresso? No, but with so many variables it just takes that one out of the equation.
Personally I don't think 10 bar is a problem. Cooling flush is so much harder to explain in writing then it is to actually do. When your machine has been idle do you get a flash boil at the group when looking at it with out the PF in? When the flash boil ends with the flush you are at about 205f and every second more is about 1f less, so for a 200f shot I flush for 5sec after flash ended then lock the PF and pull the shot. To pull another shot immidiately I won't have a flash boil yet so my flush is around 1-2 sec or sometimes no flush if I have prepped two baskets at once.
Posted Thu Feb 16, 2012, 10:04am Subject: Re: Espresso machine arrived! (VBM Jr HX & Le'lit Grinder)
germantownrob Said:
Personally I don't think 10 bar is a problem. Cooling flush is so much harder to explain in writing then it is to actually do. When your machine has been idle do you get a flash boil at the group when looking at it with out the PF in? When the flash boil ends with the flush you are at about 205f and every second more is about 1f less, so for a 200f shot I flush for 5sec after flash ended then lock the PF and pull the shot. To pull another shot immidiately I won't have a flash boil yet so my flush is around 1-2 sec or sometimes no flush if I have prepped two baskets at once.
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