Posted Tue Feb 14, 2012, 8:34pm Subject: Espresso machine arrived! (VBM Jr HX & Le'lit Grinder)
Ok.
Long post, with pictures coming later.
No crema, and a wet puck so far.
Thinking the grind may be too fine still?
I started out in the fine spectrum of things, so I think it's still too fine, because of the wet puck, but the shots are pouring way too fast (approx 6 seconds.)
That could be a tamping issue, yes? The single shot portafilter is a PAIN to tamp....
Posted Tue Feb 14, 2012, 9:20pm Subject: Re: Espresso machine arrived! (VBM Jr HX & Le'lit Grinder)
In my experience with two different VBM E-61 machines, they tend to leave a wet puck. Additionally in my experience, I have never tasted a spent puck.. ;-) Ignore the puck. All that matters is what is in the cup.
Now, no crema? The first thing we need to know is what coffee are you using? When was it roasted? NOT how long you have had it, but what date was it roasted on? if you don't know or it doesn't say, get some fresh coffee. Any decent coffee that is fresh will produce crema over a VERY wide range of parameters.
Six second extractions in +/-25 seconds points towards a real problem.These could include: - over dosing which causes the puck to be damaged when locking in the portafilter - under dosing (not enough coffee) - too coarse of a grind - poor distribution of the coffee before tamping - uneven tamping - a grinder that clumps - too high a brew force (water pressure)
But remember that while crema does indicate that the beverage is espresso, crema does not at all indicate that it is good espresso... but it is a start. ;-)
this massive article I wrote will help you understand what is going on and how to solve it/them.
Posted Tue Feb 14, 2012, 9:26pm Subject: Re: Espresso machine arrived! (VBM Jr HX & Le'lit Grinder)
frcn Said:
In my experience with two different VBM E-61 machines, they tend to leave a wet puck. Additionally in my experience, I have never tasted a spent puck.. ;-) Ignore the puck. All that matters is what is in the cup.
Now, no crema? The first thing we need to know is what coffee are you using? When was it roasted? NOT how long you have had it, but what date was it roasted on? if you don't know or it doesn't say, get some fresh coffee. Any decent coffee that is fresh will produce crema over a VERY wide range of parameters.
Six second extractions in +/-25 seconds points towards a real problem.These could include: - over dosing which causes the puck to be damaged when locking in the portafilter - under dosing (not enough coffee) - too coarse of a grind - poor distribution of the coffee before tamping - uneven tamping - a grinder that clumps - too high a brew force (water pressure)
But remember that while crema does indicate that the beverage is espresso, crema does not at all indicate that it is good espresso... but it is a start. ;-)
this massive article I wrote will help you understand what is going on and how to solve it/them.
Right now, I'm using cheap, Wal Mart beans. Read that was the best to do for dialing in the grinder? Maybe it was a bad idea.
I do have some beans I just purchased from my coffee shop I work at. That have been recently roasted.
Now I'm at about 10 seconds. (Thank god for smart phones.)
Still playing with the grind. I'm not really visually telling a difference in the grind. I did at first, but now I'm not getting much more than ten seconds regardless of if it's coarse or fine. :\
So... basically for now, ignore crema, focus on the brew time? Which, means fighting with this stupid grinder.
puma996 Senior Member Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Posts: 136 Location: Oregon City, OR Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Valentina Grinder: Mazzer Mini
Posted Tue Feb 14, 2012, 9:55pm Subject: Re: Espresso machine arrived! (VBM Jr HX & Le'lit Grinder)
Once you have fresh beans, give it a go. A 6 second shot usually means one of two things: too coarse of a grind and/or excessively high group head pressure.
I have a decent grinder with new burrs (Mazzer Mini) and the best shot I could get was about 22 seconds, and I ended up having fines in the espresso. If I backed off the grind to eliminate fines, the shot was at 16 seconds or less with watery crema. Eventually, I assembled a portafilter pressure gauge and realized the group head pressure was way too high. Since adjusting it, my shots are right where they are supposed to be.
My puck always has a wet top surface when I remove the portafilter from the group head, but the puck will absorb the moisture in a couple seconds. I wouldn't worry about that.
Posted Tue Feb 14, 2012, 10:07pm Subject: Re: Espresso machine arrived! (VBM Jr HX & Le'lit Grinder)
puma996 Said:
Once you have fresh beans, give it a go. A 6 second shot usually means one of two things: too coarse of a grind and/or excessively high group head pressure.
I have a decent grinder with new burrs (Mazzer Mini) and the best shot I could get was about 22 seconds, and I ended up having fines in the espresso. If I backed off the grind to eliminate fines, the shot was at 16 seconds or less with watery crema. Eventually, I assembled a portafilter pressure gauge and realized the group head pressure was way too high. Since adjusting it, my shots are right where they are supposed to be.
My puck always has a wet top surface when I remove the portafilter from the group head, but the puck will absorb the moisture in a couple seconds. I wouldn't worry about that.
I have fresh beans, I'm just having trouble figuring out the proper grind setting - I don't want to waste the beans.
But, the low quality beans are a bit oily. So maybe its a complete waste of time to try with those....
Calling it a night tomorrow. Going to resume fighting with the grinder tomorrow!
Also... it's interesting to note. In my manual, it said to locate a black plug somewhere on the machine.... we pored over the machine for a good 15 minutes before referring to Google images - -we had a yellow plug instead. Is this common with machines? Maybe just a newer version, or something amiss in the translation?
Posted Tue Feb 14, 2012, 10:17pm Subject: Re: Espresso machine arrived! (VBM Jr HX & Le'lit Grinder)
DUDE! really? Let's get serious. You are wasting your time, water and electricity fooling around with cheap beans. STOP! All you are learning is that cheap stale coffee makes bad espresso. When you sip espresso, there are two things in the cup- water and...? Anyone?? YES! Coffee. How can you expect to make a decent espresso with those beans? This basic concept is stated again and again, and I have to believe that you had read that a number of times before even placing your order.
I do not say the following to be rude, but stop wasting your time, stop wasting ours and get some fresh coffee and watch the crema fill your cup to overflowing! You see that picture of the espresso shot over there.. <----------------------------------- Two full ounces of crema before the shot started settling, and it was still pulling crema. That is what you have to look forward to when you get some quality, FRESH coffee.
OK.. I settled down a bit. I have now read that you have some allegedly fresh coffee.. 1 - read my massive treatise on making espresso linked in my previous post. It may take a day or two to get through, and a week to digest. It is in plain language written for the novice home barista. 2 - Set the grinder a LOT finer. if it can't stop the flow for at least 15 seconds when you turn on the pump, then there is something wrong with either the grinder or the way you are preparing the coffee - dose, tamp, distribution, etc. It is almost a universal truth that new users start with too fine a grind and work towards coarse. Better to go too fine and work back. Trust me on this one. It will use less coffee to get there in that direction. 3 - For consistency, get a gram scale that measures to 0.1 gram increments and weigh each dose at least until you get a handle on things. it will greatly improve your consistency. 4 - Tamp level and just press down hard. Don't worry about how hard. If your feet are still on the floor you will be fine. No twisting, no tapping the side of the portafilter, and no aluminum hart necessary.
puma996 Senior Member Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Posts: 136 Location: Oregon City, OR Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Valentina Grinder: Mazzer Mini
Posted Tue Feb 14, 2012, 10:27pm Subject: Re: Espresso machine arrived! (VBM Jr HX & Le'lit Grinder)
tina_daniels Said:
I have fresh beans, I'm just having trouble figuring out the proper grind setting - I don't want to waste the beans.
But, the low quality beans are a bit oily. So maybe its a complete waste of time to try with those....
Calling it a night tomorrow. Going to resume fighting with the grinder tomorrow!
Also... it's interesting to note. In my manual, it said to locate a black plug somewhere on the machine.... we pored over the machine for a good 15 minutes before referring to Google images - -we had a yellow plug instead. Is this common with machines? Maybe just a newer version, or something amiss in the translation?
I'm afraid I'm not going to be much help with getting your grind dialed in. It'll just take some trial and error. Don't be afraid to really change the grind settings, as long as you make sure not to go so fine that the burrs touch.
I think it's important to see what your brew pressure is at. Looking at the 1st-Line pictures of the Vibiemme Junior, the brew pressure gauge is on the right, and it should be between 8.5-9.5 bar when pulling a shot.
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,100 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Wed Feb 15, 2012, 12:05am Subject: Re: Espresso machine arrived! (VBM Jr HX & Le'lit Grinder)
Tina? Randy is quite right, and though (perhaps) a bit abrupt, you need to worry less about wasting the beans, and more about making great espresso. The KEY problem is that, even IF you were successful in properly dialing in those old, stale Wal-Mart beans, the grind setting will be DIFFERENT for your fresh beans! Furthermore, while you are wasting your efforts with the old stale beans, guess what? Your fresh ones are . . . yes! Getting stale!
Dump the old beans. Use the fresh ones. Start over. ;^)
Posted Wed Feb 15, 2012, 6:40am Subject: Re: Espresso machine arrived! (VBM Jr HX & Le'lit Grinder)
I understand that the new beans are what I should be using.
I have read about it everywhere, you're right.
I've also read, several places, here included, to use a low quality bean to dial in.
I get that its obvious . But, it also can't be uncommon for people to say or do, otherwise it wouldn't be all over these forums.
I very much appreciate all the advice... But please relax. I did do research, and quite a bit. Obviously, I was wrong about this. At least I had the good sense to ask for advice/help, rather than keep doing the same thing..
And yes, its fresh. I believe she orders fresh from her roasters on a weekly basis. I can get a date if you like.
Will start again tonight on a fine setting... Thank you.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,772 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Wed Feb 15, 2012, 6:51am Subject: Re: Espresso machine arrived! (VBM Jr HX & Le'lit Grinder)
If the DATE the beans were roasted is NOT PRINTED ON THE BAG, dump the beans and buy fresh ones! A quality roaster will put the day they roasted the beans on the bag, not a best by date, not a use by date, not a blank no date but the date that they roasted the beans ON. Two weeks from that date is pretty much it for espresso, you may get a little more if you put them in a drip coffee maker but for espresso, two weeks from the day they were roasted is the limit.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
Symbols: = New Posts since your last visit = No New Posts since last visit = Newest post
Forum Rules: No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards. No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum. No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum. Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards. Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics. Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies. Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies. Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts. Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
= No New Posts since last visit 