You have it backwards. The basics Italian E61s run $1500-1700. You can save ~$500 by going with Bezzera or Expobar or Oscar....
Again, Expobar office IS plumbable. And E61. And ~$1200. What's the catch?
The catch is its an Expobar.
I have 17 1/2 from counter to cabinet. I can put most machines under but refilling would not be possible unless I will be moving machine forth and back.
If you will have it under a cabinet, pulling the machine out to refill is really a non-starter in my mind. Either spend the $$ to plumb in or go with a different kind of machine.
katit Senior Member Joined: 29 Jan 2012 Posts: 34 Location: St Louis Expertise: I like coffee
Posted Sat Feb 4, 2012, 9:34am Subject: Re: Yet another "help me choose" thread
Only reason is popularity and parts availability. It' pretty expensive thing to begin with, I want to have something I can repair in 10 years from now.
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,792 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Sat Feb 4, 2012, 10:05am Subject: Re: Yet another "help me choose" thread
"re-posting" this, since maybe you didn't see it...
You don't have to "pull the machine out" to refill it every time. you can by a large plastic funnel from a restaurant supply, home brew supply, or probably even target. If angling it won't get the spout into the top of your reservoir, you could run a short line of vinyl tubing (definitely available from the home brew supply) to cover the curve you need. It's going to cost you less than $10 and save you from moving your ~50# machine every day. You can keep it in a drawer or cabinet when you're not using it.
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,100 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Sat Feb 4, 2012, 10:08am Subject: Re: Yet another "help me choose" thread
Yeah, OK. You seem very concerned with that. To put it into perspective for a moment, every newcomer is concerned about it -- although perhaps not as much as you appear to be -- but it isn't something I would worry about to such an extent. I've had espresso machines in my home since the mid-1970s. My first, a Pavoni Europicola, is still in production today.
At the present time, I own way too many machines -- four, although only two are in daily use. Look HERE: on the left is a lever machine from the 1960s -- an Arrarex Caravel; on the right in my Olympia Express Cafferex, built in 1989. Neither machine is still in production, but parts are still available. But I haven't needed any. Routine maintenance, and they work perfectly . . . that said, both of these are in my basement at the moment.
My "daily" machines are, in my office, Ala di Vittoria "La Valentina" that I've owned since 2005 (since it's in my office and I am at home, I cannot check to see when it was built), and in my home, I have an Elektra "Sixties" T1 that was built in 2006.
Again, routine maintenance takes care of just about everything. I did have to replace the pressurestat on the Elektra, but that's it. Only the Valentina has an E61-type group head, though being a full-auto, it doesn't have the original "levetta" E61 design.
My point is that, properly maintained, these machines don't breakdown very often. The whole definition of "prosumer" is that it's consumer equipment made with professional (commercial) grade parts. You need to keep it clean, replace gaskets every once in a while, and so on, but it's not like your solid brass dispersion screen will suddenly crack in half, and you'll need to find a new one . . .
katit Senior Member Joined: 29 Jan 2012 Posts: 34 Location: St Louis Expertise: I like coffee
Posted Sat Feb 4, 2012, 10:16am Subject: Re: Yet another "help me choose" thread
Makes sense. Again, 10 years is a looong time in our life.
Given all that - price-wise and from what I reaserch the winner is Automatic Bezzera BZ02 direct plumb in for #1350 Design is off a little - but my wife seems to like it and it's her kitchen afterall :)
It should make great shots, it's direct connect, it's small-ish, and automatic when I need it. Is there anything else outthere for $1500 that comes close to it?
katit Senior Member Joined: 29 Jan 2012 Posts: 34 Location: St Louis Expertise: I like coffee
Posted Sat Feb 4, 2012, 11:25am Subject: Re: Yet another "help me choose" thread
emradguy Said:
"re-posting" this, since maybe you didn't see it...
You don't have to "pull the machine out" to refill it every time. you can by a large plastic funnel from a restaurant supply, home brew supply, or probably even target. If angling it won't get the spout into the top of your reservoir, you could run a short line of vinyl tubing (definitely available from the home brew supply) to cover the curve you need. It's going to cost you less than $10 and save you from moving your ~50# machine every day. You can keep it in a drawer or cabinet when you're not using it.
I saw it. I'm very lazy person and wouldn't do that. I'd rather spend more money on direct plumbing. I KNOW that I won't do that and it will get old very quick.
Posted Sat Feb 4, 2012, 7:39pm Subject: Re: Yet another "help me choose" thread
I got my Andreja yesterday and been playing around with it, after getting it set up...filling etc. After it takes a good 30 mins to warm up to operating temps, by the manual you have to do a cooling flush before you should pull a shot, and that takes about 3 oz of water. and the water you use should be 3mg of hardness or less and they do sell in tank water softener. I'm using bottle water since my house is on a well and it's got a lot of sulfur in it so it smells like eggs and has a funny taste so it's only good for washing, laundry and some cooking if your boiling it first. I paid 1645.00 for mine, but if you keep an eye out or have them email when they get a buyer's remorse it's usually 200.00 less then a new one. Right now they have a Izzo Alex II for 1695.00 which has a larger boiler, a rotary pump, can be plumbed in or tank operated has a PID on it. Anyway good luck on your hunt.
katit Senior Member Joined: 29 Jan 2012 Posts: 34 Location: St Louis Expertise: I like coffee
Posted Mon Feb 6, 2012, 8:26pm Subject: Re: Yet another "help me choose" thread
One small espresso machine surfaced on CraigsList. It's GAGGIA Model: Classic Coffee 12/16/97 Should I get it to try how it works and what something like that should cost?
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