emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,799 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Wed Feb 1, 2012, 1:56pm Subject: Re: Yet another "help me choose" thread
I'm not the best person to recommend HX machines, so I'll leave that to others.
However, re: warm-up time. Just about any machine is going to take 30-45 minutes to come to optimum temp, so that heat distributes thoroughly throughout components. If your main concern about this is your "am session", you can easily remedy this by getting a small surge protector and a programmable timer. Mine comes on at 5:30am, M-F, without fail, and is always ready to go by the time I'm ready to use it.
Also, pouring water into the reservoir is going to get very old very fast. If you can plumb in, you may as well do it from the get-go. Right now, I'd pretty much kill to get plumbing brought to my bar area (ok, that's an exaggeration, but you get the point). I'm just waiting for a price from the plumber (and he's taking his sweet time on the estimate).
katit Senior Member Joined: 29 Jan 2012 Posts: 34 Location: St Louis Expertise: I like coffee
Posted Wed Feb 1, 2012, 2:03pm Subject: Re: Yet another "help me choose" thread
I can plumb it myself, thats not an issue. Just small copper pipe from a basement (same area where frige T is) Drain is more of a problem because of counter config and basement config. Which is OK, dumping tray is easier then moving machne from under cabinets to fill.
Thats why I said - plumbable but ideally ready to go as is so I can try and then plumb it when it get's old.
Problem is - I'm working from home and my wake up time not scheduled. So, I pretty much will have to schedule machine to be on from 8am until 6pm
Don't know about this specifically (others here or call a dealer), but I'd guess you'd need a commercial quality machine if you are planning on leaving on all day (some leave commercial grade on 24/7). I'm not sure consumer grade are rated for this or if all that wear and tear would risk the life of your machine.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,764 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Wed Feb 1, 2012, 2:15pm Subject: Re: Yet another "help me choose" thread
1+ to all above
My personal feeling is that you are starting off on the correct foot by going HX right from the start over a SBDU machine.
Your life is going to be so much nicer, you could not imagine. A big nice to have thing is plumb in, even if you drain into a bottle like I do. I pull about 36 shots a week, 3/4 of them with milk and I drain into a 4 gal water bottle which lasts nearly a month between dumping down the toilet. Add a teaspoon or two of household bleach to the empty bottle and you will not get anything growing in there at all even with some milk residue going down the drip tray.
What machine is going to be your homework and what you can find where you live. Right now there is an Ellimatic for sale in Florida for $375 in our BST forum http://coffeegeek.com/forums/members/buysell/561538 This is an older machine but there is no reason that if it is in good shape (I know nothing more than the add says) that it should serve you for quite a while.
There are other machines there too, give the forum a look.
Most machines use pretty much off the shelf parts and the Ellimatic is made by N. S. who have been around for a while and are still making great espresso equipment.
A HX machine has no problem staying on 24/7 or running on a timer. Just make sure it has water in the tank or better yet, plumbed in. It will draw water as need to maintain the water level in the boiler.
I go through phases with mine. Sometimes, I will leave it on for months at a time and other times, I use it on a timer, either way, esp with a plumb in machine, they can take it with no issues. I would not do this with a SBDU machine as nearly everyone requires you to manually keep the boiler full. At work, my Silvia is on for 8 hours but there is no way I would leave work while it is on.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
Kor Senior Member Joined: 6 May 2007 Posts: 23 Location: Canada
Posted Wed Feb 1, 2012, 4:15pm Subject: Re: Yet another "help me choose" thread
At $1000 you are very close to being able to get the new Breville Dual Boiler. This is the right machine for you.
"Since I drink milk-based drinks only and really don't want to spend lot of time making 1 shot and sometimes I have guests and don't have whole lot of money"
To me, you seem like a great candidate for the Breville based on what you've said - a step up from a simple pod machine like the Nespresso.
HX machine IMO is a whole lifestyle choice. If you are interested in learning the routine and the technique(s) to pulling a great shot of pure espresso, absolutely HX all the way. Many people especially with budget HX machines find they need to work on their technique, learning flushing for temperature consistency, etc. And you often need to warm the machine up far in advance, etc. It's not just turn it on and get a coffee while your mind or hands are doing something else. Ask yourself honestly- are you a consumer, a hobbyist, or a professional at this? How will you feel in 1 year's time? If you're an aspiring barrista, if you're used to commercial equipment or want this to be your hobby going forward you will far and beyond enjoy the HX machine more. I
f you're a consumer, get a machine geared for consumers like the Breville, it will blow your expectations away, it's easier to use, packed with design and features specific to the home user like you, you can just push a button and get a great shot, probably for someone with limited time it will make a good drink more reliably .
You drink mostly milk drinks, AND you don't want to spend a lot of time at this. You won't see any payoff to mastering a HX machine anyway, so what lead you to thinking a prosumer HX was the right choice for you....?
If you absolutely don't want or can't spring for the Breville, I would look at a machine with dual pumps and a quick recovering boiler and a separate steam thermoblock with best available steam performance in your budget. It would be nice for quickly making good milk drinks and reasonable shots, more sophisticated than a SBDU machine, less use and ownership hassle and warm up than a HX especially with your budget.
katit Senior Member Joined: 29 Jan 2012 Posts: 34 Location: St Louis Expertise: I like coffee
Posted Wed Feb 1, 2012, 4:28pm Subject: Re: Yet another "help me choose" thread
Yes, I was thinking about Breville, it is at OK price point. But have issue with "black box" type of deal. Plus, my friends (who own HX machines) had Breville before (not the one we talk about but same brand) and have bad comments about reliability. I do like fact that it is kind of Nespresso but I don't want to get stuck with $1200 broken piece. I'm handy with repairs and would appreciate fact that I can repair machine easily and parts available.
I would look at a machine with dual pumps and a steam thermoblock
What machines is that? Can you give me some names so I can research in more details?
I read and re-read about HX purging and I think I will be OK with this. This seem to be a problem only for first shot, right? So, if I have guests I will have to do it once and then just make shots. Do I understand this correctly? Experimenting is also OK with me. Once I'm on it - I will most likely get technique down(spend some time upfront) and then just use it.
Ask yourself honestly- are you a consumer, a hobbyist, or a professional at this?
Between consumer and hobbyist. Afterall, Nespresso not going away. Also, I don't like to buy expensive piece of equipment just ot throw it away 2 years later if it brakes. I'd rather have solid piece that I can maintain. So yes, it is like I'm torn apart, but main goal is great coffee.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,764 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Wed Feb 1, 2012, 5:14pm Subject: Re: Yet another "help me choose" thread
on paper the brevelle looks good but the company has a horrible reputation for quality in the united states. There are quite a few people with them here on the board and so far they seem happy with them but I would not gamble my money on the machine it's made by a questionable company regardless of who helped develop it.
HX is very easy to use and writing and reading about it takes much longer than in real life. it really isn't that scary it is very very easy to do. and no, in reference to your comment above the first shot can also be just as good as the following shots.
it does not matter who makes the machine you eventually buy it is going to require at least half an hour to warm up, that is just a fact of life. not only does the water have to heat up but all the components of the machine have to be thermally stable also and that takes time, this is true also for what ever kind of machine you have, SBDU HX DB or a combination of the above with or without thermoblock.
you already have a friend who is firmiliar with the HX machin e so getting past the inital stage should be easy to do. Why don't you just try his machine to see for yourself and then decide if it is for you?
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
katit Senior Member Joined: 29 Jan 2012 Posts: 34 Location: St Louis Expertise: I like coffee
Posted Wed Feb 1, 2012, 5:31pm Subject: Re: Yet another "help me choose" thread
calblacksmith Said:
you already have a friend who is firmiliar with the HX machin e so getting past the inital stage should be easy to do. Why don't you just try his machine to see for yourself and then decide if it is for you?
He is not local, I can't try his coffee. He just says it's not that bad to flush it. It's like second nature. He got thermometer in a brew group in his machine.
Posted Wed Feb 1, 2012, 8:15pm Subject: Re: Yet another "help me choose" thread
The fun part of using an HX is that you are part of the process and you can build your espresso skills. The amount of learning is small and people quickly get good results if they try. You'll hear a lot about flushing, but it is a trivial step that is easily learned. The HX machines are a great choice for milk-based drinks since they typically have large boilers for steaming.
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