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Is Elektra Sixties T1 an Upgrade from an Alex Duetto II?
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NobbyR
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Posted Thu Jan 12, 2012, 12:11am
Subject: Re: Is Elektra Sixties T1 an Upgrade from an Alex Duetto II?
 

Is it fair to compare a commercial HX machine to a prosumer DB machine? Isn't it a bit like comparing apples to pears?

 
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calblacksmith
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Posted Thu Jan 12, 2012, 5:59am
Subject: Re: Is Elektra Sixties T1 an Upgrade from an Alex Duetto II?
 

That was the question asked, who am I to say what the OP wants to compare to what?

 
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Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

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ryandunlap
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Location: Syracuse, NY
Posted Thu Jan 12, 2012, 6:19am
Subject: Re: Is Elektra Sixties T1 an Upgrade from an Alex Duetto II?
 

NobbyR Said:

Is it fair to compare a commercial HX machine to a prosumer DB machine? Isn't it a bit like comparing apples to pears?

Posted January 12, 2012 link

The way I framed the question, I think you can compare. What I'm concerned with is simply the cappuccino that ends up in the cup (equal barista skills assumed.) Which machine can produce a better cappuccino.
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jwoodyu
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Posted Thu Jan 12, 2012, 6:26am
Subject: Re: Is Elektra Sixties T1 an Upgrade from an Alex Duetto II?
 

NobbyR Said:

Is it fair to compare a commercial HX machine to a prosumer DB machine? Isn't it a bit like comparing apples to pears?

Posted January 12, 2012 link



For the home user * it's really about the available steps between the two machines and less about were the subjective classifications lines are drawn. The feature set of any two machines are a constant they are what they are the day you buy it and the day you retire it. The difference in duty cycle is far more important for a commercial environment using a prosumer machine than the other way around. If the duty cycle of the prosumer machine is 2x of normal household use then there is the principle of diminishing ROI for a consumer to purchase a machine with a duty cycle of 6x of normal household use.

Given the OPs original question is the Sixties T1 and upgrade from the Duetto you can argue either side. I would consider the T1 a no more a commercial machine than the GS3. Since I can't really think (granted maybe you can) of any DB machines convincinly positioned between the Duetto and the GS3 I think its a reasonable question. Now if it had been the T1 vs Breville DB which is a DB solidly in the consumer class due to Breville's history, the way the are produced, non users serviceable and the fact that there are a few DB machines solidly between it and the commercial class that is very clearly and apples to pears comparison.

My answer to the OP second question of what "If the Duetto is your current machine what is the next step up?" demonstrates how i have worked this out. Is my Duetto a prosumer machine? Absolutely What would compel me to upgrade? A commercial machine that can do pressure profiling which an additional feature and a game changer for me though the money puts it in the dream category for me. As long as I am dreaming I might as well upgrade from the one group Hydra to the two group Hydra Hybrid.

 
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JasonBrandtLewis
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Posted Thu Jan 12, 2012, 7:40am
Subject: Re: Is Elektra Sixties T1 an Upgrade from an Alex Duetto II?
 

I agree with much of the above, but i, I think, it is mostly a question of comparing apples and pears . . . except for one thing.

Danger! Danger! Warning, Will Robinson!  Tangent approaching . . .

jwoodyu Said:

I would consider the T1 a no more a commercial machine than the GS3.

Posted January 12, 2012 link

I have never seen a GS3 in a commercial environment -- there may be dozens; I just have not seen any -- whereas I have seen many T1's, along with their two-group cousins, the T3, in several different restaurants.  It may be just me, but I have always viewed the GS3 as La Marzocco's entry into the home market.  Why else would they have bothered?  They already had a one-group Linea, which some people -- far more knowledgable about these things than I -- have described as being more robust than the GS3 -- certainly more "tried and true," at any rate.

I would personally describe the Linea 1-group and 2-group as commercial DB machines equal to the Elektra "Sixties" 1- and 2-group commercial machines, while the GS3 is a über high-end prosumer machine.  Indeed, isn't the GS3 the very definition of "prosumer" -- a machine aimed at the consumer market made with professional/commercial-grape components?

Just my 2¢ -- worth far less, I'm sure . . .

Cheers,
Jason

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
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JasonBrandtLewis
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JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
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Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
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Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Thu Jan 12, 2012, 7:45am
Subject: Re: Is Elektra Sixties T1 an Upgrade from an Alex Duetto II?
 

ryandunlap Said:

The way I framed the question, I think you can compare. What I'm concerned with is simply the cappuccino that ends up in the cup (equal barista skills assumed.) Which machine can produce a better cappuccino.

Posted January 12, 2012 link

In a HOME environment, Ryan, neither one is making the cappuccino.  YOU are.  And either machine will only be as good as your skills.  Neither machine -- in and of itself, using the same grinder and the same beans -- will be innately be superior to the other.  It's all up to you.

In a COMMERCIAL environment, I'd take the Elektra every time!

 
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NobbyR
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NobbyR
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Posted Thu Jan 12, 2012, 8:05am
Subject: Re: Is Elektra Sixties T1 an Upgrade from an Alex Duetto II?
 

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

... I have never seen a GS3 in a commercial environment -- there may be dozens; I just have not seen any -- whereas I have seen many T1's, along with their two-group cousins, the T3, in several different restaurants. It may be just me, but I have always viewed the GS3 as La Marzocco's entry into the home market.  Why else would they have bothered? ...

Posted January 12, 2012 link

The GS/3 is not available with more than one group, the Elektra Sixties is, like Jason pointed out, which is why I consider it to be a commercial machine capable of producing larger quantities of espresso and frothed milk as needed in a small café or restaurant.

 
***
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JtothaR
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Posted Thu Jan 12, 2012, 8:22am
Subject: Re: Is Elektra Sixties T1 an Upgrade from an Alex Duetto II?
 

Every T1 I've ever seen on the secondhand market was coming from a restauraunt, bakery, or cafe. OTOH, the GS/3 is a tank based machine with much smaller boiler(s). I think the GS/3 is destined for consumer use, despite it's commercial build quality. Also, the plastic sides are very consumer-ish as well. I don't think that LM would purposely build a commercial machine with plastic casing.

 
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NobbyR
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NobbyR
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 2,061
Location: Germany
Expertise: I love coffee

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Roaster: N/A
Posted Thu Jan 12, 2012, 9:42am
Subject: Re: Is Elektra Sixties T1 an Upgrade from an Alex Duetto II?
 

Back to the OP's question: Can you upgrade from a DB to a HX machine or is this always a downstep? Or are these two machines so much a different level that you cannot really compare them?

 
***
"This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee, when he was urged to ban the beverage)
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jwoodyu
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jwoodyu
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Posted Thu Jan 12, 2012, 9:48am
Subject: Re: Is Elektra Sixties T1 an Upgrade from an Alex Duetto II?
 

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

In a HOME environment,
In a COMMERCIAL environment, I'd take the Elektra every time!

Posted January 12, 2012 link

No question about that what so ever. :)

Granted I was assuming single group.  A comparison is within reason based on the single group and home user assumption from the OP. I don't think the home user will realize the benefit of the true commercial machine nearly as much as the commercial operation would feel the pain of trying use a prosumer machine. I totally agree it's with either machine the quality of the cappuccino that can be achieved is intrinsic to the user not  machine.

In any event I am crossing the line from my already owned Duetto, or T1 for that matter, for my home I am likely going big time not stopping at the GS/3.

 
Yes i have a reason for leaving SCG off my list, yes it is my opinion, yes it is subjective as opinions are by definition, no don't start a flame war because you disagree.
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