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Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
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dman777
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Dec 2011
Posts: 236
Location: austin
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Silvia- No PID
Grinder: Compak k3 touch
Drip: french press
Posted Wed Jan 4, 2012, 9:03pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

from http://www.home-barista.com/naked-extraction.html:

"Tiger striping and mottling are leading visual indicators of a good extraction. Tiger striping is formed by the contrast of darker and lighter crema in the espresso stream; ideally it begins early in the pour and is sustained through the end. Mottling is the in-cup confirmation of a good extraction; it is the darker brown speckling and reddish-brown splotches formed on the surface of the crema."

'visual indicators of a good extraction'- good extraction means good body and taste to me.

In that video, why did that stream gust to the side on the machine wall like that? What does that mean when the stream goes astray?
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dagoat
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 320
Location: santa barbara, ca
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Pavoni Europiccola, BDB...
Grinder: baratza vario
Vac Pot: aeropress
Drip: manual
Roaster: cafe rosto
Posted Wed Jan 4, 2012, 11:11pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

dman, i can't help feeling your post is laced with a little sarcasm or facetiousness... not that you aren't entitled to it.  if i had to guess your "tone" online, i'd say you know the answer yourself ;)

the pour in the vid obviously had something asymmetrical about it.  channeling?  uneven distribution?  who knows.  it was linked by phil mcknight, who is not exactly a noob, when it comes to this stuff.  maybe he knows the bloke who crafted it?  i'm guessing phil was just trying to help me steer the lucky blokes who have naked PF's for their BDB's, into using stronger under-lighting so their espresso pr0n, naked extractions show up better on video.

-peter
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dman777
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Dec 2011
Posts: 236
Location: austin
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Silvia- No PID
Grinder: Compak k3 touch
Drip: french press
Posted Thu Jan 5, 2012, 1:45am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

No sarcasm or facetiousness was implied/intended. I wanted to support evidence for my counter argument from http://www.home-barista.com/naked-extraction.html. It's important to have faqs and not emotion to be clear what this machine can and can't do for those like myself looking to invest,  and home-barista states the tiger-stripe molten look is a good way to tell from aesthetics what quality the shot is(and therefore the flavor).
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Dr_Coffee_House
Senior Member
Dr_Coffee_House
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 103
Location: Brisbane
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Minnore III, BCF, DCM Others
Grinder: MaCap, BZ02, Vario,Eureka
Vac Pot: a few
Drip: one
Roaster: HT, KKTO and Antique French...
Posted Thu Jan 5, 2012, 3:50am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

dman777 Said:

No sarcasm or facetiousness was implied/intended. I wanted to support evidence for my counter argument from http://www.home-barista.com/naked-extraction.html. It's important to have faqs and not emotion to be clear what this machine can and can't do for those like myself looking to invest,  and home-barista states the tiger-stripe molten look is a good way to tell from aesthetics what quality the shot is(and therefore the flavor).

Posted January 5, 2012 link

The extraction is an INDICATOR, but subject to all the variables such as Beans and type of Roast etc etc etc.

Thus, a perfect tiger-stripe molten look may be had but the result in the cup may be far from great.

Quote from same article and is CRITICAL to the whole document:

While appearance alone isn't definitive proof of a good cup, it does go a long way in verifying the barista's technique.

Thus a naked is a handy tool to assist with Barista techniques, but does not mean a god shot....

Muscles has had plenty of so called tiger-stripe molten look and he has stated that have been a pleasure to drink. BUT then again, others have been as good if not better but not had that tiger-stripe molten look...

Lastly, some would also say that the exact same shot in a standard PF will not taste the same in the cup....

I use a Naked to brag or to check on different tamping styles or when trying different baskets after that it just sits on a shelf...

AND yes have had great tiger-stripe molten look from very basic machines such as cheep Sunbeams and other non de-script units...  But it does not mean they are top of the line coffee machines, just that I knew the bean, I had roasted to a particular style, used when a little fresh and tweaked the dose...  But the shots looked GREAT.

 
Bling does not make coffee.... Get over it.
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danielcroft
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Dec 2011
Posts: 11
Location: White Plains
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Thu Jan 5, 2012, 8:03am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

I've definitely got tiger shots that have tasted worse that something that looked over extracted. It's something I pay attention to for sure (and I do prefer a naked PF) but my (limited) experience tells me that it's not a required element of a good espresso.

Edit:
I tried my 22g VST again last night. It does not fit, I guess I could try to force it in (more!) but I don't like my chances of being able to remove it afterwards. I put a fair amount of weight (probably as much as a good hard tamp) and it still wouldn't seat correctly. Here's hoping that I can get a naked PF soonish.
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nixter
Senior Member


Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Vancouver
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Giotto Evoluzione, Oscar Pro
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Thu Jan 5, 2012, 10:32am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

dman777 Said:

No sarcasm or facetiousness was implied/intended. I wanted to support evidence for my counter argument from http://www.home-barista.com/naked-extraction.html. It's important to have faqs and not emotion to be clear what this machine can and can't do for those like myself looking to invest,  and home-barista states the tiger-stripe molten look is a good way to tell from aesthetics what quality the shot is(and therefore the flavor).

Posted January 5, 2012 link

Forget tiger striping. You are being cautious in your pre purchase investigation which is great but you are asking the wrong questions. While tiger striping is a good visual indicator of what could be a good shot, it has nothing to do with the machine. It's an indicator of the beans and grinder.
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dagoat
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 320
Location: santa barbara, ca
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Pavoni Europiccola, BDB...
Grinder: baratza vario
Vac Pot: aeropress
Drip: manual
Roaster: cafe rosto
Posted Thu Jan 5, 2012, 11:24am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

... don't forget the care in preparation of the puck... the "Mano", in the vernacular of the HB crowd.

-peter
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mcknightp
Senior Member


Joined: 11 Feb 2009
Posts: 83
Location: Sydney, Aus
Expertise: Pro Barista

Espresso: LM 3 Grp
Grinder: Robur, Swift
Posted Thu Jan 5, 2012, 2:07pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

Rate this..................

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1S0hiOBt0E

Cheers, Phil
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mcknightp
Senior Member


Joined: 11 Feb 2009
Posts: 83
Location: Sydney, Aus
Expertise: Pro Barista

Espresso: LM 3 Grp
Grinder: Robur, Swift
Posted Thu Jan 5, 2012, 2:14pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

danielcroft Said:

I've definitely got tiger shots that have tasted worse that something that looked over extracted. It's something I pay attention to for sure (and I do prefer a naked PF) but my (limited) experience tells me that it's not a required element of a good espresso.

Edit:
I tried my 22g VST again last night. It does not fit, I guess I could try to force it in (more!) but I don't like my chances of being able to remove it afterwards. I put a fair amount of weight (probably as much as a good hard tamp) and it still wouldn't seat correctly. Here's hoping that I can get a naked PF soonish.

Posted January 5, 2012 link

I have no problems fitting a VST 22g in the standard PF, but you must have the black plastic insert that's in the base of the PF removed.

Cheers, Phil
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dagoat
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 320
Location: santa barbara, ca
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Pavoni Europiccola, BDB...
Grinder: baratza vario
Vac Pot: aeropress
Drip: manual
Roaster: cafe rosto
Posted Thu Jan 5, 2012, 3:38pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

mcknightp Said:

Rate this..................

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1S0hiOBt0E

Cheers, Phil

Posted January 5, 2012 link

ok phil, get me an official Breville naked PF.  pm me, and i won't tell the rest of these yanks about it. ;)

-peter
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