kschendel Senior Member Joined: 7 Nov 2008 Posts: 268 Location: Pittsburgh Expertise: I love coffee
Grinder: Maestro Roaster: Freshroast
Posted Fri Dec 16, 2011, 10:55am Subject: Re: Most reliable Superautomatic Brand?
xlr8tion Said:
...What is the more reliable brand......Gaggia Titanium has been knocked (by the repair center in NC) as highly unreliable and my friend has a Jura C9 that he claims is bullet proof but I don't have 2400 to spare.
What brand has the lowest repair frequency and what is the forums thought of the best machine in the 1000-1500 dollar range.
The only way you're going to get a statistically significant answer is to see the overall repair records by brand, and I'm sure they are closely held. Without that, all you have is anecdotal experience which is basically useless as a buying guide, I'm afraid. For every own story of a Gaggia falling apart, you can find an equivalent story from an unhappy Jura owner.
I'd go with whatever brand your local store will maintain, or at least handle for you. If there is no such brand, you might as well flip a coin, or buy what looks best. Whatever you get, try to keep it clean and don't feed it oily, over-roasted beans.
I can flat out guarantee you that I'm faster at drink production in all aspects using proper equipment over super-autos, and I'm speaking from direct experience owning them in the past.
Getting a little hyperbolic, aren't we? *You* may be faster (although I'd like to see how you beat pushing a button and getting coffee 25 seconds later), but my wife certainly wouldn't be, and it sounds like the OP's wife wouldn't be either.
I think we can all agree that the superauto is neither cost effective nor produces anything better than mostly-OK coffee (for suitable definitions of mostly-OK). For people who are willing to accept those facts, and who indeed have as a *priority* that they push a button and coffee comes out, the superauto has its place.
Have you used a super-auto? It's immensely easier. Put your mug under it, press the button. Come back a minute later and your drink is sitting there. You wouldn't drink it, but lots of people would.
JtothaR Said:
As the OP has already stated, this will be his fourth machine in a 9 year time period and the previous three wen't into a dumpster. If each one cost him $1500 which is a conservative estimate, he will have spent $6,000 by the time he gets a replacement.
For lots of people, time is more scarce than money. For them, a new machine every other year is no big deal.
JtothaR Said:
I can flat out guarantee you that I'm faster at drink production in all aspects using proper equipment over super-autos, and I'm speaking from direct experience owning them in the past.
This makes you an outlier. Terms like "proper equipment" are very subjective and make you sound elitist.
JtothaR Said:
Every aspect of HX or DB use is far superior to Super Autos: Drink production time, Maintenance time, Drink quality, Machine longevity, cost of ownership... It's all better.
If this were true, there would be no market for super-autos and shops that analyze every part of their business wouldn't be using them. The trade-offs that you are willing to make are not universal.
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,098 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Fri Dec 16, 2011, 2:02pm Subject: Re: Most reliable Superautomatic Brand?
Steve, I'm with you, up to this point . . .
JtothaR Said:
Every aspect of HX or DB use is far superior to Super Autos: Drink production time, Maintenance time, Drink quality, Machine longevity, cost of ownership... It's all better.
If this were true, there would be no market for super-autos and shops that analyze every part of their business wouldn't be using them. The trade-offs that you are willing to make are not universal.
Of course there would be a market for super-autos! There will always be a) consumers who -- rightly or wrongly -- believe using a manual/semi-auto/full-auto is too much hassle, too complicated, too intimidating, etc., etc.; and b) commercial locations (bars, restaurants, hotels, airports, gas stations, and -- yes -- *$) which have a high rate-of-turnover among employees and do not/cannot go to the trouble to engage in meaningful staff training/education. No one ever said that corporations look to the L-O-N-G term. Too much pressure for short-term profits. This may/can often be the case even in non-corporate locations, whether the owner him-/herself "can't be bothered" with anything more than "pushing a button."
As I said above, each individual makes whatever commitment/trade-off/purchase which feels "right" to him/her. For me, I think it's rather obvious that the "convenience" of a super-auto is not worth the significant loss of quality that would result. For others? Well, this is certainly a time when "YMMV" really rings true!
crismih19 Senior Member Joined: 19 Nov 2011 Posts: 10 Location: seattle Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Mon Dec 19, 2011, 7:52pm Subject: Re: Most reliable Superautomatic Brand?
My parents' saeco incanto deluxe has 5k+ shots and counting. Mine has 2327.
Theirs was the earlier version which had a plastic steam valve that broke, but it was replaced for free. At around 3k shots, the pump failed and I replaced it with a newer one that had brass internals and is supposed to last longer. I also replaced the brew group o-ring and some some other miscellaneous o-rings all for under $10.
If you buy a super auto, get one that has been out for a while so that the bugs have been figured out.
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