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Most reliable Superautomatic Brand?
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Most reliable...  
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atlespresso
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Joined: 11 Aug 2011
Posts: 35
Location: ATLANTA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Calssic, Rancilio...
Grinder: Mazzer Mini
Posted Thu Dec 15, 2011, 5:24pm
Subject: Re: Most reliable Superautomatic Brand?
 

I have tried most machines and owned many of them.  I am only espresso drinker not coffee but i can say even the most expensive super autos over 10k do not produce a product to equal to that of a sub 1k semi automatic will produce.

Also, when asking my technician contacts what machines I should buy/ try they always steer me away from super autos.  When you open them up you can see they are a issue waiting to happen.

There is a Cimbali super auto (that I was given a demo of)  that costs about 16k that produces a espresso at about 75% of a 750.00 semi but 16k is a little steep : )
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CoffeeRoastersClub
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CoffeeRoastersClub
Joined: 6 Jul 2005
Posts: 4,368
Location: Connecticut
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vintage La Pavoni Lever...
Grinder: Breville Smartgrind,...
Vac Pot: Vintage Silex, Nicro...
Drip: Technivorm Moccamaster...
Roaster: javaPRO-CRC AIR Fluid Bed...
Posted Thu Dec 15, 2011, 5:42pm
Subject: Re: Most reliable Superautomatic Brand?
 

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

Greg, welcome to CG!

If you're a long-term reader of this site, you'll know that super-autos don't get much respect around here.  And -- no offense -- deservedly so.  This is Coffee Geek, after all, and a super-auto trades quality in the cup (which is where, for us, it counts the most) for convenience.  It's certainly a trade many people are willing to make, but rarely are they true "geeks."  

Cheers,
Jason

Posted December 15, 2011 link

Now now Jason, that is like me saying that anyone who roasts coffee in an iroast or freshroast as compared to a 60 rpm open air 10 pound capacity perforated drum residing over a swirl burner combusting syngas produced by a PID controlled Wood Gasifier is not a true "geek".

;)

Len

 
"Coffee leads men to trifle away their time, scald their chops, and spend their money, all for a little base, black, thick, nasty, bitter, stinking nauseous puddle water." ~The Women's Petition Against Coffee, 1674

www.CoffeeRoastersClub.com     www.javaPRO-CRC.com     www.KaffeeFrisch.com
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scanfield
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Joined: 21 Nov 2011
Posts: 181
Location: Texas
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: La Nuovo Era Cuadra
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Fri Dec 16, 2011, 7:47am
Subject: Re: Most reliable Superautomatic Brand?
 

JtothaR Said:

As everyone here well knows, Super-autos are way more of a hassle than semi's could ever dream of being...

Posted December 15, 2011 link

That's a bit of an exaggeration. Super-autos (usually) trade drink quality and machine reliability for convenience and ease of use. There's no reason to look down on somebody if their priorities match up better with a super-auto machine.
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JasonBrandtLewis
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JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,278
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
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Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Fri Dec 16, 2011, 8:15am
Subject: Re: Most reliable Superautomatic Brand?
 

Super autos give you fast coffee but lacks the quality. But if you need some info for super automatic espresso coffee machines, I came upon this decent site about espresso coffee machine reviews. Glad to help.=)James, forgive me but this is the 6th time (in 9 posts) you've recommended this site, and -- honestly -- the site isn't very good!  It's filled with misinformation and will lead people astray . . .

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
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JasonBrandtLewis
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JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,278
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Fri Dec 16, 2011, 8:24am
Subject: Re: Most reliable Superautomatic Brand?
 

CoffeeRoastersClub Said:

Now now Jason, that is like me saying that anyone who roasts coffee in an iroast or freshroast as compared to a 60 rpm open air 10 pound capacity perforated drum residing over a swirl burner combusting syngas produced by a PID controlled Wood Gasifier is not a true "geek".

Posted December 15, 2011 link

Point taken.  People's attitudes are what makes them a coffee geek, not equipment.  But you know as well as I do that super-autos are a trade-off between quality in the cup and convenience in the kitchen.  Like a child's see-saw, you can't have both ends at their highest point simultaneously.  For some, the trade-off is worth it; for others, it isn't.  That is up to the individual.

However, a) I've yet to have a shot from a super-auto -- commercial or consumer -- that I would consider anything better than "good" (if that), and certainly never one I thought was memorable; and b) I've never found the use of a semi- or full-auto to be inconvenient.  

But in the end, it's all a matter of one's personal priorities.

Cheers,
Jason

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
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Sylvain
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Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 62
Location: Trois-Rivieres
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Marzocco GS3
Grinder: Mahlkonig K30 Vario
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Posted Fri Dec 16, 2011, 8:48am
Subject: Re: Most reliable Superautomatic Brand?
 

Hello, I have bought  around 4 years ago a Jura S9.  The review of Coffeegeek help me a lot on my choice.  I have sold the machine after 2 years to a friend of mine.  Now, its run strong for 4 years with more than 6000 coffees on it.

No problem at all but we have made all maintenance schedule.

I hope this can help.

Sylvain
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JtothaR
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JtothaR
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Posts: 683
Location: Albuquerque, NM
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Espresso: Faema D92/A1 Smart
Grinder: B VARIO, Krups Conic
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Roaster: Redbird, Metropolis
Posted Fri Dec 16, 2011, 9:41am
Subject: Re: Most reliable Superautomatic Brand?
 

scanfield Said:

That's a bit of an exaggeration. Super-autos (usually) trade drink quality and machine reliability for convenience and ease of use. There's no reason to look down on somebody if their priorities match up better with a super-auto machine.

Posted December 16, 2011 link

Have you ever done maintenance on super autos? I'm going to take a wild guess and say no.

Lets say optimistically that drink prep time is halved on a super auto (Hint: It isn't).

Then lets say that you clean the machine once a week (cause you don't care if the coffee tastes awful).

Cleaning and lubricating the brew unit probably takes about 10-15 minutes. Then you have to clean the insides of the machine, dregs-drawer, drip area, area around and behind the brew unit. Lets say 15 minutes for that.

As the OP has already stated, this will be his fourth machine in a 9 year time period and the previous three wen't into a dumpster. If each one cost him $1500 which is a conservative estimate, he will have spent $6,000 by the time he gets a replacement.

- Who here couldn't have bought a top notch setup for half that price, or bought a GS3 for the full price.

- Any prosumer machine and grinder can turn out a latte in under a minute. Just as fast as a super auto.

- Backflushing takes a couple minutes every 1-2 weeks and doesn't require disassembling the machine

- Machines can last for decades with minimal maintenance

- Grinders need replacement burrs several times in your life (for home use)

Am I ringing any bells here?

I can flat out guarantee you that I'm faster at drink production in all aspects using proper equipment over super-autos, and I'm speaking from direct experience owning them in the past. I'm not just trying to flame people who use them.

Every aspect of HX or DB use is far superior to Super Autos: Drink production time, Maintenance time, Drink quality, Machine longevity, cost of ownership... It's all better.

-James

 
Load and Lock.
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xlr8tion
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Dec 2011
Posts: 7
Location: South Carolina
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Fri Dec 16, 2011, 10:27am
Subject: Re: Most reliable Superautomatic Brand?
 

JtothaR Said:

As everyone here well knows, Super-autos are way more of a hassle than semi's could ever dream of being...

-James

Posted December 15, 2011 link

Well...I think it is more of a preference for Semi's.  I would not call one problem in 27 months (3000 cycles) a hassle.  FWIW; my wife would find grinding coffee, weighing it (for a semi) and cluttering up her immaculate counter with three devices instead of a shiny Gaggia Titanium a hassle.

She wants a cup of coffee in two minutes with the flip of an on switch and the push of one button.

Its a classic difference of everyday coffee drinkers vs. afficianados.

No offense intended.

Peace...and I mean peace!

Greg
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CoffeeRoastersClub
Senior Member
CoffeeRoastersClub
Joined: 6 Jul 2005
Posts: 4,368
Location: Connecticut
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vintage La Pavoni Lever...
Grinder: Breville Smartgrind,...
Vac Pot: Vintage Silex, Nicro...
Drip: Technivorm Moccamaster...
Roaster: javaPRO-CRC AIR Fluid Bed...
Posted Fri Dec 16, 2011, 10:32am
Subject: Re: Most reliable Superautomatic Brand?
 

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

Point taken.  People's attitudes are what makes them a coffee geek, not equipment.  But you know as well as I do that super-autos are a trade-off between quality in the cup and convenience in the kitchen.  Like a child's see-saw, you can't have both ends at their highest point simultaneously.  For some, the trade-off is worth it; for others, it isn't.  That is up to the individual.

However, a) I've yet to have a shot from a super-auto -- commercial or consumer -- that I would consider anything better than "good" (if that), and certainly never one I thought was memorable; and b) I've never found the use of a semi- or full-auto to be inconvenient.  

But in the end, it's all a matter of one's personal priorities.

Cheers,
Jason

Posted December 16, 2011 link

I guess when it comes to Coffee Geek, we're all geeks in a specific forum category.   I say this as I just got done picking up the cooling column for my wood gas generator (which cleans and cools down the syngas which combusts in my swirl burner which provides the heat to roast my beans in my open air 10 lb. capacity drum).  It got knocked over by high winds in Connecticut last night.  The thing stands about 6 feet high.

Len

CoffeeRoastersClub: gasifier.jpg
(Click for larger image)

 
"Coffee leads men to trifle away their time, scald their chops, and spend their money, all for a little base, black, thick, nasty, bitter, stinking nauseous puddle water." ~The Women's Petition Against Coffee, 1674

www.CoffeeRoastersClub.com     www.javaPRO-CRC.com     www.KaffeeFrisch.com
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xlr8tion
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Dec 2011
Posts: 7
Location: South Carolina
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Fri Dec 16, 2011, 10:49am
Subject: Re: Most reliable Superautomatic Brand?
 

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

Point taken.  People's attitudes are what makes them a coffee geek, not equipment.  But you know as well as I do that super-autos are a trade-off between quality in the cup and convenience in the kitchen.  Like a child's see-saw, you can't have both ends at their highest point simultaneously.  For some, the trade-off is worth it; for others, it isn't.  That is up to the individual.

However, a) I've yet to have a shot from a super-auto -- commercial or consumer -- that I would consider anything better than "good" (if that), and certainly never one I thought was memorable; and b) I've never found the use of a semi- or full-auto to be inconvenient.  

But in the end, it's all a matter of one's personal priorities.

Cheers,
Jason

Posted December 16, 2011 link

AMEN!  Jason...you nailed the two ends of the spectrum of the equation. Some roast their beans; some just want to flip a power switch and hit the coffee button.   Your explanation was very elegant and salient.

I am just a coffee drinker who needs his caffeine in two minutes.  Arrogant as it may sound....at 30 cents a cup I will gladly replace a 1000 dollar super auto every two years(3000 cycles).

The Gaggia Titanium is a just a convenience machine to me that looks great on a granite counter top and makes a decent cup of coffee using Lavazza beans(oh here I go with opening another Pandoras Box)...LOL

Us folks with no palate just need convenience.


BTW...my buddy has a superauto(Gaggia Titanium) with 7604 cycles in 4 yrs...not a single problem. He's at 15 cents a cup.

I am definitely stipulating Senis are the way to go if this is your niche; those mentioning getting a Senseo....YIKES!  That's the "group" to pile on..not us Super auto owners!
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