JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,099 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Mon Dec 12, 2011, 9:42pm Subject: Re: It has arrived - Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL!
Dear Mr. Howard:
Far be it for me to say you're full of $#!+, but it does seem to me that "thou knowest not of what thou speaks." Then again, perhaps I'm the one who's full of fecal material . . . .
However, by my read, the overwhelming majority of the posts in this thread -- especially from "long-time regulars" of this forum -- boil down to this:
Breville has an absolutely gawd-awful reputation.
Breville's reputation is well-deserved.
Breville has now introduced a new machine that looks as though they've done everything right. Hmmmm . . . .
Breville looks as though -- with this new machine -- it could be a significant "player" in the market.
Breville's new machine a) bears looking into, but b) given its past (and well-deserved) reputation, caution is advised.
Now, let me ask you, Mr. Howard, how is that equivalent to "dumping"?
FWIW, I think Elektra's switch back to a 5-button T1 from a 7-button version is a step backward. It may have been done to save costs -- which could be understandable, I suppose -- but it's regrettable, IMHO.
Posted Mon Dec 12, 2011, 10:46pm Subject: Re: It has arrived - Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL!
dagoat Said:
... AFAICT, the espresso machines role pulling espresso is a function of its ability to deliver temperature and pressure consistently, at the expected or desired values. .. Am I mssing something?-Peter
"Consistently" - it means more than two consecutive good extractions. Breville's reputation of marginal machines, massive numbers of refurbished machines at very low prices (compared to the original street price), and poor customer service makes the informed buyer question the long-term consistency of this machine and support of same. Doesn't mean that it won't last a reasonable term, ...but.
Have you followed the Aussie discussions? The OPV situation started out as being a "feature" but later breville changed their tune and allowed all interested buyers to have the machine readjusted. Some of the authorized service centers to which owners were sent didn't know how to do it. teething pains or more of the same?
The steam boiler only is for steam, so for the "average" buyer, when they forget to periodically change the softener cartridge, and then fail to bring the machine in for descaling of the steam boiler, we will see good prices of refurb 900's. Should take less than two years I would think. Some of the sort of folks who hang around these places will come up with a way to descale their own machines, but since there is no hot water tap on the steam boiler, it is not as simple of a job as on other machines.
Time will tell. It would be sad t think of a $1200 "coffee maker" as just another disposable appliance, eventually more expensive to repair than to replace.
luckaz Senior Member Joined: 29 Nov 2011 Posts: 1 Location: Squamish Expertise: Just starting
Posted Mon Dec 12, 2011, 10:47pm Subject: Re: It has arrived - Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL!
I just received mine and of course I have the OPV problem. Breville has offered to replace it and send a new one; all without cost to me. I think their response has been excellent. My problem is, I don't want to go without my machine while I wait for a replacement. I'm really in love with the beast. I think it is beautiful. Should I send mine back and get the recalibrated one or just fix it myself? I am very handy and would have no problem doing the adjustment but I wonder if there would be an advantage to getting a new factory calibrated machine. Would fixing it myself really void the warranty as some have said? Any thoughts appreciated.
As an aside: I was so excited the first time I played with the machine, I drank 3 double shots. I was so wired I barely slept all night and felt like I was on speed until 2 am. Be careful if you buy one of these.
mcknightp Senior Member Joined: 11 Feb 2009 Posts: 68 Location: Sydney, Aus Expertise: Pro Barista
Espresso: LM 3 Grp Grinder: Robur, Swift
Posted Mon Dec 12, 2011, 10:55pm Subject: Re: It has arrived - Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL!
jasonhilton Said:
I agree that the steaming power doesn't match some of the larger HX/DB machines. However, it's WORLDS faster than a termoblock or SB. I can do 12oz on my BDB in less than a minute and a half.
The 3 hole steam tip on the BDB has pretty small holes, I would be interested to see if changing tips would lower the steaming time. If not, I'm sure the temperature/pressure on the steam boiler could be modified to be higher.
Hi Jason, we actually did quite a bit of work on the hole size, number of holes & configuration during development & this was decided as it was the best balance between speed & quality. Personally I would always lean towards quality over speed, even in a commercial environment. Those holes are 0.7mm & it was found that even just increasing 2 of them to 0.8mm, the quality dropped significantly. I've had similar experiences with LM & Synesso customising tips to enable you to do true 1 cup jugs with a high quality result, but still being able to do larger jugs out off the same system. Tricky.
Posted Mon Dec 12, 2011, 11:17pm Subject: Re: It has arrived - Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL!
mcknightp Said:
Hi Jason, we actually did quite a bit of work on the hole size, number of holes & configuration during development & this was decided as it was the best balance between speed & quality. Personally I would always lean towards quality over speed, even in a commercial environment. Those holes are 0.7mm & it was found that even just increasing 2 of them to 0.8mm, the quality dropped significantly. I've had similar experiences with LM & Synesso customising tips to enable you to do true 1 cup jugs with a high quality result, but still being able to do larger jugs out off the same system. Tricky.
No worries, I wasn't complaining, just stating my observation. I agree, quality is so much more important than speed (tell that to Starbucks). I never make more than 2 drinks at a time, so it's not an issue for me. Also, I would like to thank you for your input throughout this topic. You've put up with a completely undeserved amount of negativity and yet, still provide intelligent, helpful, and informative responses. You're far more patient than me...Your responses were actually a contributing factor in my decision to pick this machine up. I couldn't be happier with it; it really makes a great shot. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PUwvaMaFj8)
Posted Mon Dec 12, 2011, 11:28pm Subject: Re: It has arrived - Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL!
luckaz Said:
Should I send mine back and get the recalibrated one or just fix it myself? I am very handy and would have no problem doing the adjustment but I wonder if there would be an advantage to getting a new factory calibrated machine. Would fixing it myself really void the warranty as some have said? Any thoughts appreciated.
I adjusted mine myself, there wasn't any seal or sticker to break and nothing I did seemed to leave any evidence that the machine had been opened. I'm not saying they don't have a way of knowing, but I sure didn't see anything that would indicate it. I followed this guide: http://nic.steve-tek.com/?page_id=180
I hardly view my purchase of the BDB as anything particularly important. Fun, yes. Revelatory (the word you were probably searching for), hardly. I probably don't really qualify as a Coffee Geek in this regard. (I will argue with you to end of time about the superiority of Labradors versus Goldens as working dogs (a bit of an exageration). But, I really don't care about what brand coffee grinder you use.) My point has simply been that there seems to be a number of people on the forum and in this thread who are desperate to point out whatever perceived demerits there may be concerning the machine. Frequently these posts are coming from those who have never used the machine or have first hand experience with Brevilles at all. After reading about Breville's reputation in the espresso market two or three times, I think we get the point: Caveat emptor. Got it. Beyond that, reiterating the point ad nauseum really becomes akin dropping a turd in the punch bowl as they say.
Now, I realize that every forum has its own peculiar culture and set of posting norms. I've just been surprised by the level of "snark" and pedantry on this one . . . particularly because we're talking about COFFEE.
Which brings me to your particular argumentum ad hominem. Pretending to have insight in the perception of others is a bit presumptuous, don't you think. I'm wondering whether you're familiar with the concept of tranference.
Look, I really don't want to pick a fight with anybody. I just want to discuss the new Breville and how to use it to make the best espresso possible.
Posted Tue Dec 13, 2011, 7:37am Subject: Re: It has arrived - Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL!
luckaz Said:
I just received mine and of course I have the OPV problem. Breville has offered to replace it and send a new one; all without cost to me. I think their response has been excellent. My problem is, I don't want to go without my machine while I wait for a replacement. I'm really in love with the beast. I think it is beautiful. Should I send mine back and get the recalibrated one or just fix it myself? I am very handy and would have no problem doing the adjustment but I wonder if there would be an advantage to getting a new factory calibrated machine. Would fixing it myself really void the warranty as some have said? Any thoughts appreciated.
As an aside: I was so excited the first time I played with the machine, I drank 3 double shots. I was so wired I barely slept all night and felt like I was on speed until 2 am. Be careful if you buy one of these.
This is not how the exchange program works... Call Breville an talk with Matt. Matt is dedicated solely to the BDB. He will take some basic information from you and send you a new, calibrated machine while you keep yours. They are sending mine out today 2nd day air. When you recieve your new machine, you box up your "old" machine and use the provided return label. No fuss, no muss... You have a machine the entire time. They do pre-authorize a credit card for $250 until your old machine is returned to them. They understand how much money we have spent with them and they want to provide top notch customer service for this machine. Matt made that very clear to me... So far, so good...
Viernes Senior Member Joined: 22 Sep 2008 Posts: 33 Location: Spain Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: Compak K10 Fresh Roaster: Quest M3
Posted Tue Dec 13, 2011, 8:25am Subject: Re: It has arrived - Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL!
1atom12 Said:
Picked mine up yesterday... Mine also has the OPV adjusted improperly (13.5 bar)... Breville is sending me a new, calibrated machine as a replacement... Even with the out of calibration OPV, I am blown away as I have been able to dial my grind and tamp in perfectly to get a few nice pours so far... This is my first double boiler, but I did own an ECM Giotto and Mazzer SJ combo...
Addressing the steaming concerns... Yes, it seems to steam a little slower than I would expect from a dedicated steam boiler, but, the quality of the microfoam is unreal... I have never been able to produce such a silky, glassy foam even with my Giotto...
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