Posted Sun Dec 11, 2011, 11:55am Subject: Re: It has arrived - Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL!
I own a Quickmill Silvano and was wondering if there was a compelling reason to change to the Breville. The one area that interests me most is steaming power. Although the Breville has a separate steaming boiler, it doesn't appear to have any more umph in that department than the thermoblock steamer in the Silvano. Next on my list of interests is pre-infusion, but as a latte drinker I'm not sure that any tastes benefits would be apparent. Then finally, there are a lot of nice little touches on the Breville, especially on the programming side. Strangely though, they didn't choose to use a non-burn steam arm, which is something I would have liked to see.
Overall I don't believe there is a compelling reason for anyone currently at the Silvano/Silvia level to go for one of these. The typical buyer, my guess, is someone new to home espresso, or upgrading from a <$400 level machine. I seems that Breville has taken an espresso machine feature list and ticked off as many items as possible, but in the end I think you get a machine that is somewhat less than the sum of its parts. Is that fair?
Posted Sun Dec 11, 2011, 12:46pm Subject: Re: It has arrived - Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL!
Zimberto Said:
I own a Quickmill Silvano and was wondering if there was a compelling reason to change to the Breville. The one area that interests me most is steaming power. Although the Breville has a separate steaming boiler, it doesn't appear to have any more umph in that department than the thermoblock steamer in the Silvano. Next on my list of interests is pre-infusion, but as a latte drinker I'm not sure that any tastes benefits would be apparent. Then finally, there are a lot of nice little touches on the Breville, especially on the programming side. Strangely though, they didn't choose to use a non-burn steam arm, which is something I would have liked to see.
Overall I don't believe there is a compelling reason for anyone currently at the Silvano/Silvia level to go for one of these. The typical buyer, my guess, is someone new to home espresso, or upgrading from a <$400 level machine. I seems that Breville has taken an espresso machine feature list and ticked off as many items as possible, but in the end I think you get a machine that is somewhat less than the sum of its parts. Is that fair?
I'm still having trouble understanding why some people feel a compelling need to explain why they're NOT going to buy this machine. With all of the wonderful choices out there, I'd think you'd ending up spending more time justifying your decision not to buy this machine or that machine than discussing the merits of the one you did buy (or better yet making coffee).
In any case, I think that if you actually lay hands on one, you'd be pleasantly surprised how nice it is. On the subject of steam, as others have written, the Breville makes is damn near impossible not to end up with perfect microfoam. It takes me about 60" to texture enough milk for two lattes. My biggest problem now is that my "art" ends up looking like genetically challenged squid.
So, as someone who actually owns one, I can say that it's not fair to say that the BDB is "less than the sum of its parts". For about 1 large you end up with a machine that is well designed, very nicely featured, looks good, and (most importantly) makes stellar espresso without a lot of trouble. I'm not sure if I'm Breville's "target customer", but I'm coming from a Jura super-automatic that cost as much as the BDB. I didn't really have limit on my budget for a new machine this time but simply liked Breville's "shake things up" approach.
Settembrini Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 2 Location: Cascadia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Breville DB Grinder: Breville Smart Grinder
Posted Sun Dec 11, 2011, 2:15pm Subject: Re: It has arrived - Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL!
This is my first (maybe last) post. I am as much an Italophile as the next guy, but wanted to put in a word for Breville. I recently retired my old Gaggia Carezza to the shop for the traditional tinkering, and replaced it with a DBD in the house. I was not surprised to find the OPV needed calibration. After talking with Breville support, they sent me a new machine properly calibrated at no cost. As I understand it, the pre-auth for $250 is a precaution to ensure you return the original machine to them. This seems a reasonable request. I asked them about service down the line, and they said they are lining up dealers in major cities who will service the machines locally. I suggested a dealer in my locality, and they said they would follow up. My wife is not complaining about the espresso I'm brewing, so I am not complaining either as her taste buds are more refined than mine :)
nixter Senior Member Joined: 29 Jan 2008 Posts: 162 Location: Vancouver Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Giotto Evoluzione, Oscar Pro Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Sun Dec 11, 2011, 2:16pm Subject: Re: It has arrived - Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL!
Zimberto Said:
I own a Quickmill Silvano and was wondering if there was a compelling reason to change to the Breville. The one area that interests me most is steaming power. Although the Breville has a separate steaming boiler, it doesn't appear to have any more umph in that department than the thermoblock steamer in the Silvano. Next on my list of interests is pre-infusion, but as a latte drinker I'm not sure that any tastes benefits would be apparent. Then finally, there are a lot of nice little touches on the Breville, especially on the programming side. Strangely though, they didn't choose to use a non-burn steam arm, which is something I would have liked to see.
Overall I don't believe there is a compelling reason for anyone currently at the Silvano/Silvia level to go for one of these. The typical buyer, my guess, is someone new to home espresso, or upgrading from a <$400 level machine. I seems that Breville has taken an espresso machine feature list and ticked off as many items as possible, but in the end I think you get a machine that is somewhat less than the sum of its parts. Is that fair?
Anyone have a spare $1,000 espresso machine I can borrow then?
I say no - with the Silvano I can create exceptional espresso (with a little help from great coffee and a decent grinder) that rivals the shot produced by some very good equipment. I am very content. I posted the coupon to help out someone already considering a BDB, but I wouldn't expect anyone who is happy with what they are using to jump on this product just to change for the sake of change.
I bet I could sell my lightly used Silvano for $600 quick enough. I can take a credit card reward and the coupon to buy this machine without coming out of pocket ($0.00 shipped to my door) to own one. A quick search of the buy/sell/trade section of this forum will show my QuickMill Silvano is not for sale - I like what it lets me create.
I hope the people who end up owning one of these $995 (or less) Breville BDB's, a $995 Silvano, a $995 Cuadra E-61 HX, a $995 Bezzera, or a $995 NS Oscar are as satisfied with their new machine as I am with mine.
I wonder though, do Vivaldi and GS/3 owners have this same type of conversation?
I chew coffee beans with my teeth while gargling with 195 F water to enjoy coffee. What is this "coffee brewing" device you speak of?
zedex Senior Member Joined: 31 Jan 2010 Posts: 126 Location: B.C Canada Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Spaz v2 Grinder: vario
Posted Sun Dec 11, 2011, 5:56pm Subject: Re: It has arrived - Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL!
A good debate going on.:) We do have a few breville appliances. One blender which is an excellent blender,plus a counter top water kettle which is also great. I think the biggest IF is "IF" this new breville will last the test of time. All the features that you get for $900 is a plus but you have to wonder where this machine is the weakest. Thats the big question. One plastic bit that fails can render this machine a paper weight. I have never looked inside this machine and maybe someone who has, who has experience with espresso machines can evaluate where this machine will fail if ever. They make intake manifolds out of plastic now so plastic has come along ways, but there are all different grades of plastic. Myself, i dont think i would run out and get one since its brand new and no one knows what will happen. In a year or two thats when plastic bits will rot and fall apart, vibration will have an effect,heat,moisture. You name it. I always look back at the hyundai cars when they first came out. Absolute sh1t boxes but now are a pretty good car. The new brevilles look pretty decent i must say and so far are looking good. Hopefully they last . Good luck.
Posted Sun Dec 11, 2011, 8:23pm Subject: Re: It has arrived - Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL!
On paper, the Breville is so much more than the Silvano, so I was genuinely tempted for a moment to "upgrade". But the thing is, although the Breville is a real double boiler machine, it doesn't have the characteristics of most double boiler machines out there. 60 seconds to heat 8oz of milk is slow, and although the microfoam may seem fine standing alone, compared to other double boiler machines (admittedly at $2K+) which could steam that milk in inder 10 seconds, I'll bet it's somewhat less than impressive. The Silvano's thermoblock steamer has approximately the same level of performance as the Breville and it makes good, but not great, microfoam... slowly.
I don't mean to belittle the Breville, it looks like a great machine. I have just been looking for a compelling reason to switch from the Silvano, especially given that the coupon expires today, but I'm not finding one. I do think that it's a MUCH easier proposition for someone to switch from a full automatic, because it would represent a real upgrade in espresso quality. I look forward to following its progress in the market over the next year and seeing if it will become a classic.
Posted Sun Dec 11, 2011, 9:01pm Subject: Re: It has arrived - Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL!
I agree that the steaming power doesn't match some of the larger HX/DB machines. However, it's WORLDS faster than a termoblock or SB. I can do 12oz on my BDB in less than a minute and a half.
The 3 hole steam tip on the BDB has pretty small holes, I would be interested to see if changing tips would lower the steaming time. If not, I'm sure the temperature/pressure on the steam boiler could be modified to be higher.
Posted Mon Dec 12, 2011, 2:49pm Subject: Re: It has arrived - Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL!
Picked mine up yesterday... Mine also has the OPV adjusted improperly (13.5 bar)... Breville is sending me a new, calibrated machine as a replacement... Even with the out of calibration OPV, I am blown away as I have been able to dial my grind and tamp in perfectly to get a few nice pours so far... This is my first double boiler, but I did own an ECM Giotto and Mazzer SJ combo...
Addressing the steaming concerns... Yes, it seems to steam a little slower than I would expect from a dedicated steam boiler, but, the quality of the microfoam is unreal... I have never been able to produce such a silky, glassy foam even with my Giotto...
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