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The Crossland CC1 Machine - CG Road Trip!! (Looking for a few good geeks)
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > The Crossland...  
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ampguy
Senior Member
ampguy
Joined: 23 Apr 2010
Posts: 121
Location: Pac NW
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Fri Oct 28, 2011, 3:32pm
Subject: Re: The Crossland CC1 Machine - CG Road Trip!! (Looking for a few good geeks)
 

Thanks, this is great info. I may have an early version of firmware. For example, my unit doesn't beep unless the drop from set temp is > 10 degrees, the 1cup or mode icon just goes solid. I am also at ~2000 ft. altitude, boiling/flashing is 208-209F.

With offset of zero, and set temp of 200, temp at grouphead is a wider decrease than 10 deg., but with unit on and after a shot a minute for 3-4 minutes, I do get consistent temps, pours, volume, and crema levels.

I am pre-infusing for 3 seconds, dwell 2 seconds, pull 20 seconds.

Would be very interested in sending you some of my blend and seeing what settings gives the same taste (or close) on the CC1 as on your GS3.

This is a great unit for me. Am pouring ~20-30 shots/day on it in an office environment. Everyone loves the taste. Several want to buy my machine!!

danetrainer Said:

Holy cow, -8? I just ran a battery of tests...I do not have a bottomless PF for it yet, so I double checked the GS3 with the scace, then set up the styrofoam cup with a digital temp probe in it, I had a 10 degree difference with this method on the GS3, then tested back & forth to the CC1 letting both recover to their set point. When I spoke with Bill before my testing to confirm the correct offset, he stated the difference was built into the software, so the setting would reflect 0 in the set-up menu...so you are not seeing the boiler temp, but what is expected at the group, on the display.

My observation was the first two to three after a 15 minute idle was dropping about 2 degrees, climbing to the setpoint on the 3rd pull or so. Each time I just waited for the unit to "beep" then retest. I also have the delay after 1 second pre-infuse set to 6 sec, so I would start the procedure, dump the initial amount from the cup and get it back under the group @ the 6 second mark, then run for about 80ml of water (around the 15-16 sec mark). I did find a flash boil from the group on about the 6-7th (back to back) test on the machine. I think this must be pushing the limits of boiler recovery, causing some type of thermal overshoot, but, with actual usage times of more like 2 minutes, this didn't occur.

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but thought the info on the settings would be useful as the machine gets sent around and played with.

Posted October 28, 2011 link

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danetrainer
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Dec 2008
Posts: 62
Location: Oregon
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: GS3MP, CC1
Grinder: M7k, SJ, T80, KF804
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: Clever
Roaster: Ambex YM2, Behmor
Posted Fri Oct 28, 2011, 7:12pm
Subject: Re: The Crossland CC1 Machine - CG Road Trip!! (Looking for a few good geeks)
 

ampguy Said:

Several want to buy my machine!!

Posted October 28, 2011 link

Yeah, I unpacked the machine at Clive to give it a quick test...and someone that came in off the street bypassed all the other machines in his showroom and went strait over to the CC1 and started checking over every little detail about it...I was thinking like "hey that's not one of the demo's!).

At the same time the west coast rep for Intelligentsia was finishing some business with Mark and came over to check out the machine, we chatted and then he said he had to get going as he had to catch a flight out...so he ran out to his car and loaded me up with 4 bags of fresh roasted coffees...so I had some 8 day Black Cat to use for my shots today! I didn't get any duplicate shots compared to the GS3, but certainly decent ones, and I don't have the ins & outs of the machine figured out yet.
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ampguy
Senior Member
ampguy
Joined: 23 Apr 2010
Posts: 121
Location: Pac NW
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Fri Oct 28, 2011, 8:14pm
Subject: Re: The Crossland CC1 Machine - CG Road Trip!! (Looking for a few good geeks)
 

I think that anyone who enjoys tasting blends and SO's from various sources will want and need a PID and pre-infuse machine, and without doing DIY mods or paying much much more, I don't think there is anything as tweakable out there like the CC1 with built-in PID and pre-infusion.

One thing that would be interesting is after you get a grind that gives the same volume, with the same time pull as the GS/3 (maybe disabling pre-infuse at first?) would be what temp setting you used on the CC1 to get the equivalent in the cup temp as the GS/3.

Then go on to pre-infuse and other variables. I can't think of any laws of physics that would prevent the CC1 from brewing as good a shot as the GS/3, but I know that GS/3 has a lot of Magic in it!!


danetrainer Said:

Yeah, I unpacked the machine at Clive to give it a quick test...and someone that came in off the street bypassed all the other machines in his showroom and went strait over to the CC1 and started checking over every little detail about it...I was thinking like "hey that's not one of the demo's!).

At the same time the west coast rep for Intelligentsia was finishing some business with Mark and came over to check out the machine, we chatted and then he said he had to get going as he had to catch a flight out...so he ran out to his car and loaded me up with 4 bags of fresh roasted coffees...so I had some 8 day Black Cat to use for my shots today! I didn't get any duplicate shots compared to the GS3, but certainly decent ones, and I don't have the ins & outs of the machine figured out yet.

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latte_da
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latte_da
Joined: 1 Oct 2011
Posts: 6
Location: Lombard
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Sat Oct 29, 2011, 11:44am
Subject: Re: The Crossland CC1 Machine - CG Road Trip!! (Looking for a few good geeks)
 

ampguy Said:

I can't think of any laws of physics that would prevent the CC1 from brewing as good a shot as the GS/3, but I know that GS/3 has a lot of Magic in it!!

Posted October 28, 2011 link

I am sorry, this is starting to sound a scam to me. You guys are to compare a sub-par $700.00 CCI espresso machine to a $6500.00 GS3 espresso machine. How desperate is the coffegeek.com to sell these CCI machines to it's members? Because now you are entered the realm of crazy talk. I do not want to read crazy talk about a CCI espresso machine I am thinking to buy. It seem like the road test review already has been written before the road trip start and the CCI machine is a winner. How can that be I do not know.
I have did research about this CCI on my own time and I am no longer encourage to buy this machine even more now when I am reading crazy claims to compare the CCI to the GS3. What I discover is that the CCI is a Chinese machine called a GEE espresso machine in China but called a CCI machine in America. I do not want this Chinese espresso machine any longer because the review is already in before the road is tested. Which tells me it is a scam.

Leroy
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samuellaw178
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samuellaw178
Joined: 22 Jan 2011
Posts: 382
Location: KL,Malaysia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Arrarex Caravel
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Drip: French Press, Aeropress,...
Roaster: DIY Copper drum roaster
Posted Sat Oct 29, 2011, 12:44pm
Subject: Re: The Crossland CC1 Machine - CG Road Trip!! (Looking for a few good geeks)
 

latte_da Said:

I am sorry, this is starting to sound a scam to me. You guys are to compare a sub-par $700.00 CCI espresso machine to a $6500.00 GS3 espresso machine. How desperate is the coffegeek.com to sell these CCI machines to it's members? Because now you are entered the realm of crazy talk. I do not want to read crazy talk about a CCI espresso machine I am thinking to buy. It seem like the road test review already has been written before the road trip start and the CCI machine is a winner. How can that be I do not know.
I have did research about this CCI on my own time and I am no longer encourage to buy this machine even more now when I am reading crazy claims to compare the CCI to the GS3. What I discover is that the CCI is a Chinese machine called a GEE espresso machine in China but called a CCI machine in America. I do not want this Chinese espresso machine any longer because the review is already in before the road is tested. Which tells me it is a scam.

Leroy

Posted October 29, 2011 link

Leroy,
I know why you felt that way. But try not to generalize everyone here by lumping them based on a speculation that just one person said. No one is saying CC1's comparable to a GS3. The reason GS3 is even mentioned here, is only just because Bill Crossland, the one who redesign the Gee espresso machine into CC1, was one of the engineer/designer(not sure if he's the lead) that design the popular GS3.

Theoretically, espresso machine is just a mean of pushing hot water under certain pressure through coffee beds. There's nothing magic in it. This is what Mypressi Twist, a portable handheld espresso "machine" has proven. The big difference between a super expensive machine, and a cheap entry level machine, is the ease of use and consistency, and maybe to a certain extent, it means the ability to deliver specified pressure and temperature of water when needed or desired by the user consistently. GS3(paddle) has a very stable intrashot temperature, craft-able pressure profile and highly polished excellent build quality. CC1 certainly lack the ability to tweak the pressure profile on the fly, has less intrashot temp(yet to be tested), and of course lower build quality than the GS3. But no one knows for certain whether those pressure profile or preinfusion will make a espresso "better", nor the stable intrashot temperature is good for shot. They are probably just producing different shots. It's just that our mentality that "we're paying more to get that taste, so of course it's better.Otherwise why would we do that?" But keep in mind that preference to a certain extent is a very subjective area.

That said, what we are paying for the high end machines,such as speedster, La Marzocco, synesso, etc, in part, are mainly for the build quality, shininess, and the ability to impress others. We could get almost as good of a shot from a 2k DB machine, but what makes us want to upgrade to GS3 level?It's the build quality and probably the extra consistency. I doubt the taste is that much better with the super expensive machine.

With low end machine, you can get godshot in like 5% of the time; prosumer machine you get like 30%; high end you get like 80%; and super high end you get 90%. It's the consistency that matters. That's where the lower end machine usually fails. But the quality wise(taste), it's probably not that much of a difference that I think many of us can't distinguish.

For one, I have not any affiliate with Coffeegeek and I am sincerely offering my own opinion about this machine. I doubt most of us here has anything to do with the CC1 seller at all. It's just a volunteer contribution to the coffee aficionado community (this I speak for myself). If the machine is no good, that's it, I am gonna tell just that. There's no benefit for me (nor would I) say otherwise. But if it's good, of couse I will share this with others.
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Joel_B
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Joel_B
Joined: 9 Oct 2007
Posts: 1,823
Location: Pacific NW
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Astra Mega II
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Posted Sat Oct 29, 2011, 1:00pm
Subject: Re: The Crossland CC1 Machine - CG Road Trip!! (Looking for a few good geeks)
 

Leroy, with all due respect I think you're assumption that the road test is a "scam" and coffeegeek is trying to sell the machines is grossly unwarranted. For starters, the road test isn't directly being compared to any machine only testing the machine itself so there is no "win" "lose" here. The two people talking about the comparison to the gs3 aren't part of the road test (although I could be mistaken as I haven't seen the official list). Lastly coffeegeek doesn't sell machines. At best there's some indirect money potential thru advertising. I'm excited to see what john q coffeegeek has to say about the machine and am looking forward to seeing the reports.
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ampguy
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ampguy
Joined: 23 Apr 2010
Posts: 121
Location: Pac NW
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Sat Oct 29, 2011, 2:26pm
Subject: Re: The Crossland CC1 Machine - CG Road Trip!! (Looking for a few good geeks)
 

Leroy,

There is no scam that I see. If you've already determined that the CC1 is "sub-par" then why are you even following this thread?

Now if you want real "crazy talk" well some folks are claiming my son's Casio G-shock watch keeps better time than my Rolex Daytona. I am abhored, and in shock and awe. I am not sure which watch to take and smash in the back yard with a sledge hammer!!

So back to espresso machines - there are big differences between the units, the GS3 has a double boiler and can steam and brew, and heck, probably even make coffee all at the same time.

The CC1 can steam then brew or brew then steam, but not do both at the same time. The only way to compare the two is to have both machines side by side. One of our members is lucky enough to have that setup.

Those of us who own and like our CC1's want to see how they compare in certain areas like temp and pid configurations. We have no expectations that our CC1's will grow a boiler, or transform into better materials.




latte_da Said:

I am sorry, this is starting to sound a scam to me. You guys are to compare a sub-par $700.00 CCI espresso machine to a $6500.00 GS3 espresso machine. How desperate is the coffegeek.com to sell these CCI machines to it's members? Because now you are entered the realm of crazy talk. I do not want to read crazy talk about a CCI espresso machine I am thinking to buy. It seem like the road test review already has been written before the road trip start and the CCI machine is a winner. How can that be I do not know.
I have did research about this CCI on my own time and I am no longer encourage to buy this machine even more now when I am reading crazy claims to compare the CCI to the GS3. What I discover is that the CCI is a Chinese machine called a GEE espresso machine in China but called a CCI machine in America. I do not want this Chinese espresso machine any longer because the review is already in before the road is tested. Which tells me it is a scam.

Leroy

Posted October 29, 2011 link

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EricBNC
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EricBNC
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 1,866
Location: North Carolina
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: QM Silvano, LP Stradivarius,...
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Posted Sat Oct 29, 2011, 3:10pm
Subject: Re: The Crossland CC1 Machine - CG Road Trip!! (Looking for a few good geeks)
 

When I saw the word "scam", I knew it was time to come clean - I confess I have been comparing measurements on my second hand Gaggia coffee to see if the Crossland CC1 internals would fit in my Gaggia's case.  I was going to pull the old "gut swap" but I see the jig is up...

I kid of course - the measurements are too far off for the swap to work! : )

Besides keeping me on the straight and narrow, I am glad Leroy has weighed in with this comment, mistaken as it might be.  I will be looking at the Crossland CC1 soon as part of this test group - I have zero ties to this site outside of liking the overall vibe here which makes a sincere coffee enthusiast feel at home.  

I recall you mentioned earlier in another thread that this machine needed a $2,000 grinder to work - I am happy to report I have purchased a yet to be received $299 Baratza Virtuoso Preciso which I plan to use with the Crossland CC1.  I have no ties to Baratza either and can return it within 30 days if I am not happy.  I recently purchased a new machine that is similar to the Crossland CC1 so I have no reason to like it or dislike it any more than it deserves - same goes for the Baratza Preciso.

Sit tight Leroy and your faith in humanity will be rewarded with information worth it's weight in gold!

 
I chew coffee beans with my teeth while gargling with 195 F water to enjoy coffee. What is this "coffee brewing" device you speak of?
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itch808
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Joined: 5 Jun 2009
Posts: 105
Location: Boston
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Le'Lit PL041
Grinder: Baratza Vario
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Posted Sat Oct 29, 2011, 3:49pm
Subject: Re: The Crossland CC1 Machine - CG Road Trip!! (Looking for a few good geeks)
 

I'm interested in seeing the results myself.

<-- LeLit PL041 + Baratza Vario Owner

Considering a HX or Lever since DBs are out of my price range.

This may be a nice medium....
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TonyVan
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Joined: 24 May 2010
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Location: Pacific Northwest
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Espresso: GS/3, La Pavoni
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Posted Sat Oct 29, 2011, 11:03pm
Subject: Re: The Crossland CC1 Machine - CG Road Trip!! (Looking for a few good geeks)
 

latte_da Said:

I have did research about this CCI on my own time and I am no longer encourage to buy this machine even more now when I am reading crazy claims to compare the CCI to the GS3. What I discover is that the CCI is a Chinese machine called a GEE espresso machine in China but called a CCI machine in America. I do not want this Chinese espresso machine any longer because the review is already in before the road is tested. Which tells me it is a scam.
Leroy

Posted October 29, 2011 link

Leroy, if you had done your CC1 research on THIS site you would have found the GEE connection - and the major changes that make it into a CC1 - established a long time ago on CoffeeGeek.com, and several times at that.  I am unlikely to be alone in finding your dismissal offensive, unburdened as it is by any personal experience whatsoever with this machine. Your apparent wholesale inattention to what danetrainer and others actually wrote here is, regardless, less remarkable than your accusing them - and Pat in particular of all people - of fraud.

Or maybe it's the other way around and you're one of those people paid to smear competitors?  Well, probably not - they're usually a lot better at it.  So I guess you're off the hook, but please be more careful if you wish to write here.
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