Posted Wed May 12, 2004, 4:33pm Subject: Rancillio Price Rise, Again... Silvia now $495
Rancilio Price Increase, Again...
Well, for the second time in a year Rancilio has raised prices, the Silvia now going for $495.00 and the MD40 going up to $425.00. I know, it's the weak dollar, but...
I had problems justifying the Silvia, for what it is, at the old price of $395.00, but at almost five hundred it’s just too silly. It really is time for the Italian designed, China made espresso machine, something like a Livia for $295.00, which would be about how much it would cost if it was coming form the Mother Of All Exporters
Posted Wed May 12, 2004, 5:26pm Subject: Re: Rancillio Price Rise, Again... Silvia now $495
Well gosh! At that price now we would have to compare the Sylvia against machines like Isomac Venus ($499 at 1stincoffee.com) and Innova Dream ($473.54 at lescafesastoria.com). How do these machines stack up?
Personally - at this price I lean towards the Venus. (Maybe I just like it's look best, but it has quality build as well)
MarkPrince Moderator Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 5,462 Location: Vancouver, BC Expertise: Professional
Espresso: KvdW Speedster Grinder: Compak K10 WBC Vac Pot: A bit too many Drip: Clive Coffee Drip Stand Roaster: Hario Glass Retro Roaster
Posted Wed May 12, 2004, 5:59pm Subject: Re: Rancillio Price Rise, Again... Silvia now $495
JonR10 Said:
Well gosh! At that price now we would have to compare the Sylvia against machines like Isomac Venus ($499 at 1stincoffee.com) and Innova Dream ($473.54 at lescafesastoria.com). How do these machines stack up?
Personally - at this price I lean towards the Venus. (Maybe I just like it's look best, but it has quality build as well)
Posted Wed May 12, 2004, 6:21pm Subject: Re: Rancillio Price Rise, Again... Silvia now $495
It will take someone much smarter than me to figure the political and social implications of using Chinese labor.
What I can say is that my company does have circuit boards assembled in China and the quality is good. I have been to the factory where one of the products I was involved in was built. The workers appeared to be happy and I don't think they were slaves.
Yesterday someone on this fourum mentioned a $39 pump espresso machine from J.C. Penneys. I found it on their web site. It is made in China.
My just over one year old Silvia is rusting and needs a body off restoration. I figure all the steps required will take a good part of a month. Since I have access to an espresso machine at work I can live with my press pot at home for the duration, but I make a decaff soy moca for my wife each morning.
Since the machine is nearly free ($50 with shipping and the governator's cut) I coud have a back up machine so the mocas won't be interupted. I ordered one yesterday.
It will be interesting to see if it corrodes.
These machines should serve notice to the Italians to clean up their act.
Come on Rancillo, isn't $500 for a machine which rusts in a year a bit excessive?
Phil
expobar Said:
If we were to use chinese labor, so many bad things would happen:
The quality control would plummet We would be supporting human rights abuses We would be supporting a communist government Italy's economy would plummet, with their entire economy based on Vespas....
Prices aside for a moment... I don't know how widespread this problem is (mine never had it nor two other local CGs with Silvias) but I have to wonder if you let water splash over and behind the driptray. The driptray is ridiculously shallow and I see how it could happen easily. I had to remove it constantly and wipe up.
Posted Wed May 12, 2004, 8:31pm Subject: Re: Rancillio Price Rise, Again... Silvia now $495
expobar Said:
If we were to use chinese labor, so many bad things would happen:
The quality control would plummet We would be supporting human rights abuses We would be supporting a communist government Italy's economy would plummet, with their entire economy based on Vespas....
Bad things? Well, I guess you had better make out your will, give away all your possessions, and get that suicide machine ready, assuming you can find one made in the USA, as if you were to check through out your life and your house I would bet that 70% of everything you own comes from China or has China made components in it.
As for quality control, you must be joking: Italian machines are almost as bad as British automobiles used to be, and may still be. If anything the quality would skyrocket if the machines were made in China.
As for human rights abuses, I assume you are American, and how any American can talk about human rights abuses with a straight face these days is just amazing.
And, as for a communist government, China? In name, maybe, but we're talking raw naked capitalism at work with all these $50.00 DVD players and so forth. Obviously, Wal-Mart has figured out the biggest capitalists on earth are now working in China.
So, I think Isomac and Rancilio should do what everyone else has done, ship all their tooling to China, keep design at home, and flood the market with $250.00 Isomac Teas.
Any idea what separates the good from the bad? I'm in the midst of the Venus/Silvia decision, and am leaning toward the the Venus if I can get "a good one". Is there any way 1st Line ( or another vendor) can differentiate between the thermostats? Thanks John
I'm thinking the price hike pretty much nails it in favor of the Le'lit.
Also - what's with the price hike now? If the argument is that its more expensive to make stuff in Europe than it was a few months ago that's total garbage. Currently the Dollar is getting STRONGER relative to the Euro. That makes American exports (as if we still made anything) more expensive in Europe, and European exports cheaper here. Put another way, if Rancilio has to pay 300 Euro to make, distribute, ship, etc a Silvia, that would have meant they had to sell it for $385 to break even in January, but only $350 today.
Also completely agreed about China. I'm not dying to move there, but there's no place else on the planet that's improving the quality of life of its inhabitants at a faster pace. Still a ways to go, for sure, but given where they were a decade ago, I think its hard to argue that manufacturing jobs have been bad for China.
Quality/price-wise, they knock the socks off of European goods by a wide margin. And a huge chunk of what we think of a European/American goods are actually made there. There's nothing in these machines that couldn't be easily recreated with decent tools (Expobar's already recreated the E61), and the few components that require some specialization (pumps, for instance), could be cheapy shipped from Italy if need be. I imagine the only reason there's not a lot of this being done already is pressure from the Italian government to keep manufacturing jobs there, and the fact that the volume of the higher end home machines doesn't really justify big factories.
As far as steaming power, number of repairs, and customer satisfaction, does the Venus seem better or worse than the Silvia? As owner of a big espresso dealership, you're uniquely qualified to comment on this!
Steaming power - Current thermostat on the the Silvia does slightly outperform the Venus. However, newbies to the Silvia have a longer learning curve for creating froth (based on experience with 1st-line customers only). Once they pass that, they sometimes request the optional thermostat.
Repair record - The rate of repair per each 100 machines sold is relatively the same - meaning no statistical difference. If a machine has a high defect rate or a low satisfaction rate, I can personally assure that 1st-line will drop a machine, and in some cases an entire line.
Customer satisfaction - For newbies, the Venus has an edge as the gauge assists in finding the right grind and the steam pressure is a little more friendly. For the experienced, the Silvia has a higher satisfaction rate.
We hope this answers your questions to your satisfaction.
Symbols: = New Posts since your last visit = No New Posts since last visit = Newest post
Forum Rules: No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards. No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum. No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum. Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards. Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics. Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies. Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies. Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts. Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
= No New Posts since last visit 