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Single-Boiler vs. Heat Exchanger (HX) dilemma [Rancilio / Pasquini]
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kojach
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Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 22
Location: Toronto, Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rocket Giotto Premium +
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: Braun AromaDeluxe KF510
Posted Mon Nov 22, 2010, 9:04am
Subject: Single-Boiler vs. Heat Exchanger (HX) dilemma [Rancilio / Pasquini]
 

To give you all some context, I'm coming from a super-cheap and very low-end steam powered consumer machine:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kojach/5192583134/ (first time for everything!)


I love espresso, and admit that though I used to have a cheap burr grinder in the past, I've become lazy and now just ask my local coffee shop to espresso-grind the beans for me. But I do want to improve my barista skills and have creamy micro-foam with nice crema shots.

My budget is ~$1,200 for a good machine + grinder, so I'm down to 2 very different machines:

I also like to entertain a lot, but it's frustrating having to wait between cups/shots to de-pressurize and fill waterwhen I need to get 6 lattes out to people.

And I'm sensing that a Rancilio would be just as frustrating, since I'd be waiting for temperature surfing between steaming and brewing.

Which is why I'm eyeballing the Pasquini as it is a HX machine in my budget, and it seems I could go from shot to shot with steaming in between with little waiting time.

What worries me is that I see a million positive reviews of the Rancilio especially with PID modifications, and few reviews of the Pasquini from the occasional person that bought one.


Thoughts?
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Garrett
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Joined: 12 Nov 2010
Posts: 54
Location: Chicago Suburbs
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: Bodum French Press
Posted Mon Nov 22, 2010, 9:42am
Subject: Re: Single-Boiler vs. Heat Exchanger (HX) dilemma [Rancilio / Pasquini]
 

(I'd be curious to hear people's thoughts too on this--You could go the route I'm going (until I pick up my Rocket Giotto in a few months...) which is I ordered the Silvia with Vario for $1,018 + Free 2 Day Shipping and then you could purchase the PID separate for ~$210ish (Click Here (www.auberins.com)) which puts you just a hair over your budget.  The lux grinder, although nice to be stepless, I think you'll do better with the Vario.  I do like the idea of having dual thermoblocks is nice but if you do Americanos or use hot water, you'll be using a kettle.  Too bad they don't bundle the T2 with the Vario and skip the stand....  

Another idea, because you entertain, you could also do a Silvano which uses a thermoblock for the steam side and a Rocky for the same price range over at Chris Coffee.  Or put just a hair more in (talk to Chris and they'll help you out) and get a Vario with it.  This is another idea and a great machine (I regret not getting it now on a used one, new + Vario is a hair more then my budget of 1k)

Just some ideas for you :)

Garrett

 
- Garrett
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gime2much
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Joined: 10 Dec 2004
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Posted Mon Nov 22, 2010, 10:12am
Subject: Re: Single-Boiler vs. Heat Exchanger (HX) dilemma [Rancilio / Pasquini]
 

kojach Said:

Which is why I'm eyeballing the Pasquini as it is a HX machine in my budget

Posted November 22, 2010 link

Just a quick hint. Before placing your order, spend a bit of time researching the difference between H/X and Dual Thermoblock.

 
Dan Brewer
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sweaner
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Posted Mon Nov 22, 2010, 10:32am
Subject: Re: Single-Boiler vs. Heat Exchanger (HX) dilemma [Rancilio / Pasquini]
 

What Dan is saying is that the Pasquini is not an HX, but uses a thermoblock for both the brew water and the steam.  I think that the Quickmill Silvano would be a better choice given the PID for the real brew boiler and the dedicated thermoblock for steaming.  Couple the Silvano with a Baratza Vario and you will be in great shape.

 
-Scott
“Coffee - the favorite drink of the civilized world.”
Thomas Jefferson
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kojach
Senior Member


Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 22
Location: Toronto, Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rocket Giotto Premium +
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: Braun AromaDeluxe KF510
Posted Mon Nov 22, 2010, 11:01am
Subject: Re: Single-Boiler vs. Heat Exchanger (HX) dilemma [Rancilio / Pasquini]
 

Yeah that was just a poor choice of words on my part... I understand the thermoblock design doesn't produce consistent temperatures, and a true boiler is a preferred setup - so that would be a trade-off.

I'll check out those machines to compare. Thanks a lot!
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iDrinkCoffeeCanada
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Posted Mon Nov 22, 2010, 11:24am
Subject: Re: Single-Boiler vs. Heat Exchanger (HX) dilemma [Rancilio / Pasquini]
 

Like mentioned the Livietta is not a heat exchanger but a single boiler which has a thermoblock for steaming.  

Also bear in mind import costs and duties if you are shipping it from the states, you can expect to pay a 9% duty on top of exchange, shipping and brokerage costs.

If you are entertaining often and making milk based beverages then a heat exchanger is a better choice as a single boiler dual purpose machine will be quite slow.

The BZ99 by Bezzera is likely the least expensive HX on the market and it is essentially a Pasquini Livia (1.5 litre HX)

SJ

 
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Garrett
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Joined: 12 Nov 2010
Posts: 54
Location: Chicago Suburbs
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: Bodum French Press
Posted Mon Nov 22, 2010, 11:31am
Subject: Re: Single-Boiler vs. Heat Exchanger (HX) dilemma [Rancilio / Pasquini]
 

Funny I just noticed the post saying HX and didn't think "wait how'd i miss a sub-$1,000 machine that is a HX?" I've never been a fan of thermoblocks and hence going with the Silvia for me but the Silvano for entertaining should do very well.  The Vario will also be good because if you upgrade down the road, it'll hold up to a lot of HX or DB machines.

Silvano:
http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/home/espresso/silvano

Vario:
Click Here (www.chriscoffee.com)

Though not sure about the costs to Canada...

 
- Garrett
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gime2much
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Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,965
Location: Sunny S Fl
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Pavoni, Astoria comm, 2...
Grinder: La Pavoni Zip, Bunn...
Drip: Bunn comm
Roaster: Popcorn popper (air),co/ufo
Posted Mon Nov 22, 2010, 11:35am
Subject: Re: Single-Boiler vs. Heat Exchanger (HX) dilemma [Rancilio / Pasquini]
 

iDrinkCoffeeCanada Said:

Like mentioned the Livietta is not a heat exchanger but a single boiler which has a thermoblock for steaming.  

Posted November 22, 2010 link

From the link provided by the OP:

Pasquini Livietta...Dual Thermblock Boiler System: The Livietta T2 has 2 thermoblocks for a steady supply of espresso as well as steam, anytime you need it. With the Livietta, you can froth or steam milk for lattes and cappuccinos even while you brew. This makes the machine great for entertaining, allowing you to create a number of different drinks without making guests wait long.

 
Dan Brewer
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kojach
Senior Member


Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 22
Location: Toronto, Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rocket Giotto Premium +
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: Braun AromaDeluxe KF510
Posted Mon Nov 22, 2010, 11:37am
Subject: Re: Single-Boiler vs. Heat Exchanger (HX) dilemma [Rancilio / Pasquini]
 

Yeah that Silvano looks amazing!

I'll need to track down the best place to get it from that doesn't ship UPS ground (since apparently they won't charge brokerage fees for air shipments - as per my last conversation with UPS).

As for the grinder I'm not too fussy - but will likely be doser-less.
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Garrett
Senior Member


Joined: 12 Nov 2010
Posts: 54
Location: Chicago Suburbs
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: Bodum French Press
Posted Mon Nov 22, 2010, 11:44am
Subject: Re: Single-Boiler vs. Heat Exchanger (HX) dilemma [Rancilio / Pasquini]
 

You could try Click Here (www.idrinkcoffee.com) They ship Canada Post Expedited

See if they'll price match Chris Coffee with the appropriate exchange rates too (maybe they will?) That'd be awesome then....

 
- Garrett
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