Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Espresso Machines
Why wouldnt everybody buy a Quickmill superautomatic
Commercial Equipment
Nuova Simonelli, La Marzocco, Rancilio. Nationwide installation. Instant financing options.
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Why wouldnt...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 1 of 2 last page next page
Author Messages
rettaps
Senior Member


Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 266
Location: SD
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: 2011 V3 Vibiemme DB Super...
Grinder: Compak K10 Fresh, Versalab...
Vac Pot: Cona,
Drip: Techniworm, 6 cup Chemex
Roaster: San Franciscan
Posted Sat Nov 20, 2010, 8:52pm
Subject: Why wouldnt everybody buy a Quickmill superautomatic
 

Hi, i'm just browsing though chris coffee website and i noticed the superauto Click Here (www.chriscoffee.com)
and i was wondering why we all don't buy one of these instead or paying that for a machine without a grinder and need a grinder as well,
also would be faster, easier, and no mess, think i'm missing something here?
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
JasonBrandtLewis
Senior Member
JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,368
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Sat Nov 20, 2010, 10:15pm
Subject: Re: Why wouldnt everybody buy a Quickmill superautomatic
 

rettaps Said:

. . . and i was wondering why we all don't buy one of these instead or paying that for a machine without a grinder and need a grinder as well,
also would be faster, easier, and no mess, think i'm missing something here?

Posted November 20, 2010 link

Are you missing something?  How about great espresso?

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
rettaps
Senior Member


Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 266
Location: SD
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: 2011 V3 Vibiemme DB Super...
Grinder: Compak K10 Fresh, Versalab...
Vac Pot: Cona,
Drip: Techniworm, 6 cup Chemex
Roaster: San Franciscan
Posted Sat Nov 20, 2010, 10:20pm
Subject: Re: Why wouldnt everybody buy a Quickmill superautomatic
 

Why wouldnt it be great, has metal brew head, big boiler, brews directly above the cup
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Jmanespresso
Senior Member
Jmanespresso
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 2,109
Location: Westchester NY
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Alex Duetto II
Grinder: Compak K10 - Vario
Vac Pot: Yama-SY5/SY8/TCA5
Drip: V60, Beehouse, CCD
Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Sat Nov 20, 2010, 11:51pm
Subject: Re: Why wouldnt everybody buy a Quickmill superautomatic
 

The Quickmill SuperAuto is certainly in a class of its own when you look at other SuperAutos.  I tried espresso from the first model Chris was selling a while back, and I was quite surprised.  Definitely a nice shot.  What I thought about after tasting it was, if I got a shot like that from my setup, Id know I was almost dialed in.  The shot tasted nice, maybe it would have benefitted from a slight dose change, but honestly, to someone who isn't a coffeegeek, it'd be better then anything they ever dreamed of drinking.  And to me?  Hell, I really enjoyed the shot.(And Ive tried a number of Juras and Gaggias, I know the swill they produce, fresh coffee or not)

But for us?  CoffeeGeeks?  I think if you asked everyone here if they would trade their setup for a super-auto machine that would still produce, time after time, shots that were EXACTLY as good as what they make everyday, at least 80% would still keep their current setup.

Why?  Well, while taste is of high importance, using our equipment and making the coffee is easily just as important.  I know it is to me anyway.  I love weighing out my coffee and grinding it, giving the portafilter a quick tap while thwackin' the doser, do a quick yet calculated finger sweep into the knockbox, watching the beautiful shot form, oh, and who could forget the ever satisfying "Thud!" of the portafilter on the knockbox?


The fact is, while the superauto that Chris sells is a damn good machine, easily beating any other superauto home users would consider, it still lacks one thing.  Human taste.  A machine can get pretty damn close, and be consistent at it.  But no machine can ever have taste buds to perfectly dial in a shot of espresso to one persons liking.

 
Follow Your Bliss

Coffee makes your constantly overcome your prejudices and re-evaluate your own "received wisdoms" when it comes to judging cup flavors. -Tom Owen, SweetMarias
back to top
 View Profile Contact via AOL Instant Messenger Link to this post
rettaps
Senior Member


Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 266
Location: SD
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: 2011 V3 Vibiemme DB Super...
Grinder: Compak K10 Fresh, Versalab...
Vac Pot: Cona,
Drip: Techniworm, 6 cup Chemex
Roaster: San Franciscan
Posted Sun Nov 21, 2010, 8:45am
Subject: Re: Why wouldnt everybody buy a Quickmill superautomatic
 

Ok that was convincing, i think im one of these that wouldnt trade my setup for that superauto, but lets take another approach here, lets say driving a pickup with a manual or automatic transmission, sure the driver might be skilled enough to find a slightly better gear then the automatic would, but still no doubt automatic transmissions are taking over fast, would the quickmill make other improvements along the line to even narrow the gap from manual to superautomatic?  Not trying to convince myself, but i keep wondering which way the future is going,
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
JasonBrandtLewis
Senior Member
JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,368
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Sun Nov 21, 2010, 11:20am
Subject: Re: Why wouldnt everybody buy a Quickmill superautomatic
 

Ty,

Clearly you have a great setup (Vibiemme DB w/a Mazzer Mini E), but have you ever tasted a shot from a super-auto that came close to what you can do at home?  I have not.

Now, time for whatever grains of salt you deem appropriate:  I have not had a shot from a Quick Mill Superauto, but I certainly believe Jeff when he writes:

Jmanespresso Said:

The Quickmill SuperAuto is certainly in a class of its own when you look at other SuperAutos.  I tried espresso from the first model Chris was selling a while back, and I was quite surprised.  Definitely a nice shot.

Posted November 20, 2010 link

That said, his next comment is crucial:

Jmanespresso Said:

What I thought about after tasting it was, if I got a shot like that from my setup, Id know I was almost dialed in.  The shot tasted nice, maybe it would have benefitted from a slight dose change . . .

Posted November 20, 2010 link

Remember that (one of) the key to great espresso is "The Four M's," and I have yet to read, see, discover a machine that can take the mano out of the equation and still produce a great shot with 3 (rather than 4) M's . . .

Now, there are some people who savor the "ritual" of preparing the shot, the anticipation, the weighing, grinding, the -- whatever . . . personally, I don't think about it: I just make the coffee.  But I do know how to adjust the grind, how to adjust the dose -- even adjust the temperature on the fly, if necessary -- and so on.  Can a machine do that?

(I know, I know, the answer is "yes," and that's why Jean-Luc was always immensely satisfied with the results when he said, "Tea.  Early Grey.  Hot.")

For me, Jeff stated the bottom line perfectly:

Jmanespresso Said:

. . . to someone who isn't a coffeegeek, (the shot from the Quick Mill would) be better then anything they ever dreamed of drinking.  And to me?  Hell, I really enjoyed the shot.(And Ive tried a number of Juras and Gaggias, I know the swill they produce, fresh coffee or not)

Posted November 20, 2010 link

But here's the rub:  the Quick Mill Monza Super Automatic is $2695 (temporarily priced at $2495).  Most of the people who come online here and ask about superautos are looking in the $800-$1200 range, so . . .

/ / / / /

rettaps Said:

Ok that was convincing, i think im one of these that wouldnt trade my setup for that superauto . . .

Posted November 21, 2010 link

Agreed.

rettaps Said:

. . . but lets take another approach here, lets say driving a pickup with a manual or automatic transmission, sure the driver might be skilled enough to find a slightly better gear then the automatic would, but still no doubt automatic transmissions are taking over fast . . .

Posted November 21, 2010 link

Faulty analogy, IMHO.  If a manual lever espresso machine (no pump) is a pickup truck with a manual transmission, and a semi- or full-automatic espresso machine (w/pump) is a pickup truck with an automatic transmission, than a super-automatic would be a pickup truck on one of those smart highways of the future -- just type in the destination, sit back, and the truck drives itself (electronics under the surface of the roadway maintains speed, distance from the cars in front and behind, etc., etc.).  

rettaps Said:

but i keep wondering which way the future is going,

Posted November 21, 2010 link

Towards more and more automation.  ;^)

Cheers,
Jason

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
cappuccinoboy
Senior Member


Joined: 27 Jun 2009
Posts: 798
Location: MILANO
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Milano pod, Milano fully...
Grinder: grind on demand
Posted Sun Nov 21, 2010, 4:35pm
Subject: Re: Why wouldnt everybody buy a Quickmill superautomatic
 

rettaps Said:

Hi, i'm just browsing though chris coffee website and i noticed the superauto Click Here (www.chriscoffee.com)
and i was wondering why we all don't buy one of these instead or paying that for a machine without a grinder and need a grinder as well,
also would be faster, easier, and no mess, think i'm missing something here?

Posted November 20, 2010 link

although there is some true in what you say, 2495$-2695$ (used to be 2395$ in previous model, if I remember correctly) is a high barrier for many people, and because given the number of drinks you actually have to make, it could often be unadvisable
Ciao, Pietro

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

Ty,

Clearly you have a great setup (Vibiemme DB w/a Mazzer Mini E), but have you ever tasted a shot from a super-auto that came close to what you can do at home?  I have not.

Now, time for whatever grains of salt you deem appropriate:  I have not had a shot from a Quick Mill Superauto, but I certainly believe Jeff when he writes:

That said, his next comment is crucial:

Remember that (one of) the key to great espresso is "The Four M's," and I have yet to read, see, discover a machine that can take the mano out of the equation and still produce a great shot with 3 (rather than 4) M's . . .

Now, there are some people who savor the "ritual" of preparing the shot, the anticipation, the weighing, grinding, the -- whatever . . . personally, I don't think about it: I just make the coffee.  But I do know how to adjust the grind, how to adjust the dose -- even adjust the temperature on the fly, if necessary -- and so on.  Can a machine do that?

(I know, I know, the answer is "yes," and that's why Jean-Luc was always immensely satisfied with the results when he said, "Tea.  Early Grey.  Hot.")

For me, Jeff stated the bottom line perfectly:

But here's the rub:  the Quick Mill Monza Super Automatic is $2695 (temporarily priced at $2495).  Most of the people who come online here and ask about superautos are looking in the $800-$1200 range, so . . .

/ / / / /


Agreed.

Faulty analogy, IMHO.  If a manual lever espresso machine (no pump) is a pickup truck with a manual transmission, and a semi- or full-automatic espresso machine (w/pump) is a pickup truck with an automatic transmission, than a super-automatic would be a pickup truck on one of those smart highways of the future -- just type in the destination, sit back, and the truck drives itself (electronics under the surface of the roadway maintains speed, distance from the cars in front and behind, etc., etc.).  

Towards more and more automation.  ;^)

Cheers,
Jason

Posted November 21, 2010 link

Hi Jason, a long time we do not argue......although I noticed your "professional" JasonBrandtLewis mutation.......
I agree with most you say, just disagree with your MANO reference..... I always said that any (good) superauto needs an expert barista (it could very well be a coffee geek) to correctly "tune" it and keep tuned regularly : I said, if I remember correctly, that a (good) superauto would be a nice touch of love for any caring husband , who takes the job of actually tune and keep tuned the superauto, so that wife can make herself a great shot anytime husband is not around...or caring boss for anybody else in a small community environment (like office)
Because, you see, with your manual set up you care about freshness of coffee, correct grinding, correct dosing, correct tamping, correct temperature... and voila your great espresso......
Well with a superauto it is EXACTLY the same, because all those features are adjustable, (and you have to adjust them), except that you do not have to go different steps and the machine does the manual chores for you....although the machines NEEDS you and your expertise because is not intelligent : electronics ONLY control a cycle of functions....and do not automatically do any adjustement :::::::::::::::
But again I would never try and sell a superauto to you, still fact remains that with a superauto (a good one) you do not necessarily trade convenience for quality and if you play it right you get both... it is just easier to learn the business of making good espresso (if the (good) superauto is affordable)......
Ciao, Pietro
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
ryguy
Senior Member


Joined: 2 Aug 2009
Posts: 288
Location: Indiana
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Bezzera BZ02S
Grinder: Pharos, B. Vario
Posted Sun Nov 21, 2010, 7:18pm
Subject: Re: Why wouldnt everybody buy a Quickmill superautomatic
 

Jmanespresso Said:

I love weighing out my coffee and grinding it, giving the portafilter a quick tap while thwackin' the doser, do a quick yet calculated finger sweep into the knockbox, watching the beautiful shot form, oh, and who could forget the ever satisfying "Thud!" of the portafilter on the knockbox?

Posted November 20, 2010 link

+1 :)

Even if a high-end super auto could potentially produce espresso on par with high-end semi/auto + grinder combos in the right hands, what advantage is there if you still have to meticulously control everything? I thought the advantage to a super auto was your 1-touch expressos (sic) and cappuccinos. So if you're going to be micromanaging everything to eek out every last bit of flavor, why not just stick with the traditional setup?

 
Ryan D
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Dooglas
Senior Member
Dooglas
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 699
Location: Portland, OR
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Vibiemme Junior
Grinder: Ascaso, Baratza
Drip: Bonavita, Bodum press
Roaster: GeneCafe, Behmor
Posted Sun Nov 21, 2010, 10:36pm
Subject: Re: Why wouldnt everybody buy a Quickmill superautomatic
 

Why wouldn't everyone pay $2495 for okay espresso with a high likelihood of expensive breakdowns (just my guess, but certainly consistent with most every other superauto around)? And one flaw of essentially all superautos is exposing the grinder to the humidity from the espresso machine. Seems like a flaw that is hard to get around with any self-contained superauto. More to the point, Starbucks switched from manuals to superautos to reduce the need for training their "baristas", i.e. dumbed the process down. I sure know what happened to their quality when that occurred. I'm not liking the thought of that occurring in my kitchen.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
gime2much
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,965
Location: Sunny S Fl
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Pavoni, Astoria comm, 2...
Grinder: La Pavoni Zip, Bunn...
Drip: Bunn comm
Roaster: Popcorn popper (air),co/ufo
Posted Sun Nov 21, 2010, 10:51pm
Subject: Re: Why wouldnt everybody buy a Quickmill superautomatic
 

Dooglas Said:

Starbucks switched from manuals to superautos to reduce the need for training their "baristas", i.e. dumbed the process down. I sure know what happened to their quality when that occurred.

Posted November 21, 2010 link


And you can bet their Franke cost a lot more than $2500.....$27,000 was a figure being thrown around.

 
Dan Brewer
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
showing page 1 of 2 last page next page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Why wouldnt...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Cafe Solutions
Commercial sales and service, nationwide installation, equipment leasing options.
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.536797046661)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+