rettaps Senior Member Joined: 22 Jun 2008 Posts: 246 Location: SD Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: 2011 V3 Vibiemme DB Super... Grinder: Compak K10 Fresh, Versalab... Vac Pot: Cona, Drip: Techniworm, 6 cup Chemex Roaster: San Franciscan
Posted Sun Nov 21, 2010, 10:53pm Subject: Re: Why wouldnt everybody buy a Quickmill superautomatic
Ya, i never gave that any thought, quickmill could have that issue because the grinder is right above the brewing chamber, Did anyone preorder one? Who will give us the first review on it? Chris claims its been at work for 6 months at Mc Donald with very good proformance,
takeshi Senior Member Joined: 12 Oct 2002 Posts: 731 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Silvia Grinder: Super Jolly Roaster: Amaya Roasting
Posted Mon Nov 22, 2010, 8:29am Subject: Re: Why wouldnt everybody buy a Quickmill superautomatic
rettaps Said:
Ok that was convincing, i think im one of these that wouldnt trade my setup for that superauto, but lets take another approach here, lets say driving a pickup with a manual or automatic transmission, sure the driver might be skilled enough to find a slightly better gear then the automatic would, but still no doubt automatic transmissions are taking over fast, would the quickmill make other improvements along the line to even narrow the gap from manual to superautomatic?
To continue your analogy, no matter how far automatic transmissions come along they're not going to change my preference for a manual. I want to be involved in the driving process and an auto detaches me further from my car. I'm not sure that the analogy translates back to espresso equipment in this particular case, but there it is.
I guess "more complexity, more prone to breakdown" still applies. Not only that but concerns such as budget as well. The world isn't one-size-fits-all regardless of topic. There are any number of reasons why a given person wouldn't consider a superauto. For me, taste is the biggest reason.
rettaps Said:
and i was wondering why we all don't buy one of these instead or paying that for a machine without a grinder and need a grinder as well, also would be faster, easier, and no mess, think i'm missing something here?
Well, one thing you're missing is the existing discussions on superautos. Most of this stuff has been touched on in former threads.
As I said, the world isn't one-size-fits-all. You need to lay out your priorities and purchase based on them. If you place convenience above all else then a superauto might be a good fit for you.
Yes, i know, but nobody ever directly related any topic to the quickmill, me coming from Saeco, I would never go back, but the quickmill seems to have fixed alot of the issues these junky saecos had,
takeshi Senior Member Joined: 12 Oct 2002 Posts: 731 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Silvia Grinder: Super Jolly Roaster: Amaya Roasting
Posted Mon Nov 22, 2010, 8:54am Subject: Re: Why wouldnt everybody buy a Quickmill superautomatic
rettaps Said:
Yes, i know, but nobody ever directly related any topic to the quickmill, me coming from Saeco, I would never go back, but the quickmill seems to have fixed alot of the issues these junky saecos had,
The brand/model doesn't make a difference. There have been no revolutionary changes that make superautos produce god shots on demand. If that was the case, we'd have a cover story here and at Home Barista.
IMO, that's what it would take for all of us to even consider switching to superautos.
It sounds like you may be in a different boat from most if you came from Saeco superautos and your only concern was Saeco reliability. What the Saecos (as well as other superautos) produce make them a nonstarter for the rest of us and that's the important point from the former threads IMO for answering the very question that this thread asks.
And I would believe him . . . Chris is one of my "go to" vendors, and I've had nothing but great dealings with both he and his staf, both beore and after the sale. But keep in mind what "good performance" means: for you and me, it's what's in the cup; for a vendor, it may mean no breakdowns, no returns, no complaints.
Just a thought . . .
takeshi Said:
TThere have been no revolutionary changes that make superautos produce god shots on demand. If that was the case, we'd have a cover story here and at Home Barista.
takeshi Senior Member Joined: 12 Oct 2002 Posts: 731 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Silvia Grinder: Super Jolly Roaster: Amaya Roasting
Posted Mon Nov 22, 2010, 9:04am Subject: Re: Why wouldnt everybody buy a Quickmill superautomatic
Jmanespresso Said:
Why? Well, while taste is of high importance, using our equipment and making the coffee is easily just as important. I know it is to me anyway. I love weighing out my coffee and grinding it, giving the portafilter a quick tap while thwackin' the doser, do a quick yet calculated finger sweep into the knockbox, watching the beautiful shot form, oh, and who could forget the ever satisfying "Thud!" of the portafilter on the knockbox?
This brings it back to my comment on the automatic transmission analogy. Even if an automatic has better performance numbers on paper the driving experience matters to me. I'd consider what Jmanespresso describes above to be akin to the synergy I feel with proper shifts on a manual with a clutch pedal. That 3rd pedal makes a big difference in the experience for me. For others, it may be a nuisance.
I guess it's the same way with shaving for me. A modern 5 blade Gillette and gel/foam in a can may be more convenient but I prefer the experience of preparing my face with a hot towel, lathering with a good badger brush and good shave soap and shaving with my double edge safety razor. In the end I get a closer, smoother shave with the "old school" approach using just one blade.
To each his own. One person's experience is another's chore. One person's convenience is another's new-fangled-solution-with-mediocre-results.
cappuccinoboy Senior Member Joined: 27 Jun 2009 Posts: 789 Location: MILANO Expertise: Professional
Espresso: Milano pod, Milano fully... Grinder: grind on demand
Posted Mon Nov 22, 2010, 2:31pm Subject: Re: Why wouldnt everybody buy a Quickmill superautomatic
ryguy Said:
+1 :)
Even if a high-end super auto could potentially produce espresso on par with high-end semi/auto + grinder combos in the right hands, what advantage is there if you still have to meticulously control everything? I thought the advantage to a super auto was your 1-touch expressos (sic) and cappuccinos. So if you're going to be micromanaging everything to eek out every last bit of flavor, why not just stick with the traditional setup?
because of human nature there is no place for "one size fits all" The real advantage of a superauto is that you "tune" for first drink then the machine replicates for rest of day or period (like in a semi traditional set-up where you make changes, from time to time for weather, beans aging ....) and because it is not true that after all machine is just a hot water delivery system,
rettaps Said:
Ya, i never gave that any thought, quickmill could have that issue because the grinder is right above the brewing chamber, Did anyone preorder one? Who will give us the first review on it? Chris claims its been at work for 6 months at Mc Donald with very good proformance,
actually $bucks are using Termoplan machines, which has made everybody else in the superauto business unhappy......and they are very good machines with potential for top quality espresso..., unfortunately in spite of price Termoplan machines are not intelligent and need operator tuning....and if that happened, even waitress could make great cup...
JasonBrandtLewis Said:
And I would believe him . . . Chris is one of my "go to" vendors, and I've had nothing but great dealings with both he and his staf, both beore and after the sale. But keep in mind what "good performance" means: for you and me, it's what's in the cup; for a vendor, it may mean no breakdowns, no returns, no complaints.
Hi Jason (again...) and it could not be otherwise : a vendor has to worry for complaints, returns, breackdowns, whatever equipment he sells : what's in the cup depends strictly on the user and his personal know how. Again I used to kid you on Chris beeing sold out of this machine for too long: I must admit that he was damn serious working to make a good machine better...(I understand that he is waiting for delivery of a batch of 24 QM superautos..... lets see what report from lucky owners will be..(probably it would be more correct to call them "wishfull", at least at this stage.., but you can bet that great majority will report -not anticipating for them-) Ciao everybody, Pietro
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