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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Rocket Espresso...  
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BigG
Senior Member


Joined: 20 Sep 2010
Posts: 4
Location: Calgary, Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Tue Sep 21, 2010, 12:21am
Subject: Re: Rocket Espresso Giotto Evoluzione
 

I too am kind of a newbie and will most likely purchase either a Giotto Evoluzione or La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II.  This forum has fantastic information and opinion. However, I would like to solicit advice to what I feel is most important to a purchaser and coffee lover similar to my situation.  I realize an HX machine may require a cooling flush to bring the brew temperature down to required level (no big deal).  However the discussion always seems to gravitate towards controlling temperature to variations of 1 degree.  My question is that with a properly engineered HX machine can I not simply just flush for 5 or so seconds and then brew a very good espresso?  I mean an espresso that is not bitter/sour/burnt?  I understand that some people can discern additional/different flavors with 1 degree variations in brew temperatures, but many newbies like myself could care less (no disrespect to those seeking these "additional" flavors), typically our goal is good espresso that is not sour, too bitter or burnt. Is this simple goal not realistic with a "flush and go" process with a good HX?.  The dual boiler Mini Vivaldi II looks like a great machine as well without the possibly "difficult" task of obtaining good espresso simply on an HX machine. Why then would I look at the Giotto Evoluzione you ask?  Basically my common sense tells me that if there are less components to deal with I will have potentially less repairs/problems to deal with. For example 1 boiler instead of 2 and their corresponding connections to leak, less pressurestats/pids to fail, level sensors, valves, etc.  Thus I can see an HX as possibly being a much simpler and less costly machine to own...when spending this kind of money this is of very high importance to myself.  As well from what I have read I understand that a dual boiler machine is much more difficult to descale when the time comes...is this correct?

Thanks, Gary.
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vjhardcore
Senior Member
vjhardcore
Joined: 2 Mar 2010
Posts: 95
Location: Toronto
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rocket Giotto EVOLUZIONE,...
Grinder: Anfim
Posted Fri Sep 24, 2010, 12:43pm
Subject: Re: Rocket Espresso Giotto Evoluzione
 

BigG Said:

I too am kind of a newbie and will most likely purchase either a Giotto Evoluzione or La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II.  This forum has fantastic information and opinion. However, I would like to solicit advice to what I feel is most important to a purchaser and coffee lover similar to my situation.  I realize an HX machine may require a cooling flush to bring the brew temperature down to required level (no big deal).  However the discussion always seems to gravitate towards controlling temperature to variations of 1 degree.  My question is that with a properly engineered HX machine can I not simply just flush for 5 or so seconds and then brew a very good espresso?  I mean an espresso that is not bitter/sour/burnt?  I understand that some people can discern additional/different flavors with 1 degree variations in brew temperatures, but many newbies like myself could care less (no disrespect to those seeking these "additional" flavors), typically our goal is good espresso that is not sour, too bitter or burnt. Is this simple goal not realistic with a "flush and go" process with a good HX?.  The dual boiler Mini Vivaldi II looks like a great machine as well without the possibly "difficult" task of obtaining good espresso simply on an HX machine. Why then would I look at the Giotto Evoluzione you ask?  Basically my common sense tells me that if there are less components to deal with I will have potentially less repairs/problems to deal with. For example 1 boiler instead of 2 and their corresponding connections to leak, less pressurestats/pids to fail, level sensors, valves, etc.  Thus I can see an HX as possibly being a much simpler and less costly machine to own...when spending this kind of money this is of very high importance to myself.  As well from what I have read I understand that a dual boiler machine is much more difficult to descale when the time comes...is this correct?

Thanks, Gary.

Posted September 21, 2010 link

Again Gary, personally I think we're splitting hairs between these two machines. As a 'newbie' to the wonderful world of premium quality espresso - you can't go wrong with either machine and are very lucky to not have to take the long slow road of learning to get to a quality machine.
I've been told I'm fanatical about my espresso - I never order it when I'm out because no one can make it like I prefer it. I buy Ar Azzurro beans and blend half and half with Ionia 100% Espresso (blue bag). I usually pull a cooling flush once or twice as if making an espresso before I actually put my grind in the filter. I make two or three ristrictos that fill just over 3/4 of a small espresso cup.(yes all three in one cup) Sweet/creamy super hot - no sugar - perfection; in my opinion. I do this 3 -4 times throughout the day. Some times with and sometimes without a cooling flush depending on the time between my 'doubles' or 'triples'. After upgrading from a Braun to a Starbucks Barista to an ECM Giotto; I have found nirvana. In my opinion this Giotto Evo will be passed on to my daughter when I'm dead and gone. She's two now - and I don't plan in dieing any time soon.

 
"I'm a man of simple tastes, easily satisfied by the best" Winston Churchill
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Why1504
Senior Member


Joined: 6 Sep 2010
Posts: 8
Location: Alabama
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sun Sep 26, 2010, 4:07pm
Subject: Re: Rocket Espresso Giotto Evoluzione
 

I love my Evoluzione. But it is just coffee. The way you mke it and the way I make it will be different. Even if you get the same grinder it will be different. You will adjust your beans, your grind, your tamp, and your cooling flush and it will be different. Different is not bad. The coffee will be fantastic. I love the look of my Giotto but many people don't like the chrome look. When I was picking out a machine I learned they all make great coffee. One may be  more beautiful than another, one may be more reliable than another but the coffee will be fantastic.  One thing, as a cook I assure you taste change,  your palette becomes more mature and most people enjoy different flavors as they gain experience. Further coffees change. One bean may no longer be available, we may have a colder or dryer growing season and the coffee will be different. The dining experience whiter it be coffee, wine, spirits, steak, or potatoes is a journey. When you invest in a machine like this you will begin the coffee journey.
 
Go buy a machine and start enjoying great coffee.
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carlhpretired
Senior Member
carlhpretired
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Posts: 20
Location: Sunnyvale, California
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rocket Giotto Evoluzione,...
Grinder: Mazzer Mini Electronic Type...
Drip: Capresso Elegance
Posted Tue Sep 28, 2010, 9:15pm
Subject: Re: Rocket Espresso Giotto Evoluzione
 

DavecUK Said:

I reviewed both machines for a UK retailer, why don't you take a look at the reviews and see if that helps.....they are quite comprehensive.


Click Here (www.bellabarista.co.uk)
Click Here (www.bellabarista.co.uk)

I used the Evolouzione for around 6 weeks and I own the first Duetto ever made. It's probably a great way to get a direct comparison from and experienced user, who has used both machines extensively.

Posted June 18, 2010 link

Dave, have you had any experience with the Rocket Giotto Premium Plus - specifically pertaining to the length of cooling flushes?  I've read on several forums about very long cooling flushes being required for this machine.
But I noticed in your review of the Evoluzione, you commented that it required a slightly shorter cooling flush than the many other HX machines.  Aren't the Giotto Premium Plus and the Giotto Evoluzione basically the same machine internally, except for the ability to switch from water tank to mains operation?

 
Carl
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vjhardcore
Senior Member
vjhardcore
Joined: 2 Mar 2010
Posts: 95
Location: Toronto
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rocket Giotto EVOLUZIONE,...
Grinder: Anfim
Posted Wed Sep 29, 2010, 6:43am
Subject: Re: Rocket Espresso Giotto Evoluzione
 

Why1504 Said:

I love my Evoluzione. But it is just coffee. The way you mke it and the way I make it will be different. Even if you get the same grinder it will be different. You will adjust your beans, your grind, your tamp, and your cooling flush and it will be different. Different is not bad. The coffee will be fantastic. I love the look of my Giotto but many people don't like the chrome look. When I was picking out a machine I learned they all make great coffee. One may be  more beautiful than another, one may be more reliable than another but the coffee will be fantastic.  One thing, as a cook I assure you taste change,  your palette becomes more mature and most people enjoy different flavors as they gain experience. Further coffees change. One bean may no longer be available, we may have a colder or dryer growing season and the coffee will be different. The dining experience whiter it be coffee, wine, spirits, steak, or potatoes is a journey. When you invest in a machine like this you will begin the coffee journey.
 
Go buy a machine and start enjoying great coffee.

Posted September 26, 2010 link

Well said Dave - My point exactly.

** As for length of cooling flushes - Its not a huge issue, I personally usually pull one or two the length of my short espressos, maybe two to fill an espresso cup ,spaced out a couple seconds. Any machine works better once a couple of espresso are run through it. My best shots are pulled when I'm making 4 to 6 in a row for company. You'll get a feel for it when you start getting the grind /tamp right and relise your espresso is alittle 'burnt' maybe or still flows too fast**

 
"I'm a man of simple tastes, easily satisfied by the best" Winston Churchill
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,672
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Wed Sep 29, 2010, 9:25am
Subject: Re: Rocket Espresso Giotto Evoluzione
 

Any prosumer or commercial machine will work best after it pulls several shots in a row, regardless of how the machine was built or the internal components. Once everything stabilizes out, the shots are very consistent.

I will pull 3 doubles for use in my going to work, hour long time to drink 20 oz latte after two, two shot, cooling flushes spaced about 10 seconds apart, I use the flush and go method of pulling shots. Then I pull my two straight doubles for my first coffee to drink in the morning. By the time I get to my straight shots, they are very nice indeed (the first shots are very nice also but the machine is just a bit more stable after the first several shots) For me and the way I have things setup, it is very rare indeed that I need more than 4 or 5 oz of water total, to flush with even after standing idle for hours.

Any machine needs time to leave the idle mode and get into the working swing of things. Cooling flushes will change from machine to machine, setup to setup, time sitting at idle, temp of desired brew etc. A thermometer in the group head can help a bit while you are getting used to your machine and how it operates but my PERSONAL OPINION is that it is need less and less after you get used to your machine.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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DavecUK
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,392
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sun Oct 3, 2010, 6:01pm
Subject: Re: Rocket Espresso Giotto Evoluzione
 

carlhpretired Said:

Dave, have you had any experience with the Rocket Giotto Premium Plus - specifically pertaining to the length of cooling flushes?  I've read on several forums about very long cooling flushes being required for this machine.
But I noticed in your review of the Evoluzione, you commented that it required a slightly shorter cooling flush than the many other HX machines.  Aren't the Giotto Premium Plus and the Giotto Evoluzione basically the same machine internally, except for the ability to switch from water tank to mains operation?

Posted September 28, 2010 link

Just read my own review of the premium plus (some time ago now)...yes, I was also under the impression that the cooling flush was slightly shorter than other HX machines I had reviewed. It was not as short as the Evolouzione, but remember it's all down to the steam pressure these machines are being run at and the group/thermosyphon design. As I said in my review of the evo...the factory set steam pressure was far too low, put it to 1.2 - 1.3 bar for steaming and the cooling flush will be a lot larger.....However, don't get too hung up on the size of the cooling flush, on very few machines have I ever found it bad enough (too large or small) to cause a shot problem....
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carlhpretired
Senior Member
carlhpretired
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Posts: 20
Location: Sunnyvale, California
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rocket Giotto Evoluzione,...
Grinder: Mazzer Mini Electronic Type...
Drip: Capresso Elegance
Posted Fri Oct 15, 2010, 2:42pm
Subject: Re: Rocket Espresso Giotto Evoluzione
 

ee61 Said:

I really enjoy spending time in the company of passionate coffee enthusiasts.  You are all committed and intense bunch, fueled by consuming top quality caffeinated beverages. This discussion is very lively and centered around making the best drinks we can enjoy.
As I have been waiting for my electrician who cancelled for the 2nd time to take my kitchen outlet from 15amp to 20amp, the purchase process has begun to accelerate my doubts. To be honest I continue to toil and go back and forth with this decision.  I find myself trying to satisfy two things at once.  Outstanding engineered machine with outrageous good looks.

Can we finish up this excellent discussion with a few more questions I have developed.

IN YOUR MINDS IS IT STILL PARAMOUNT TO HAVE THE TIGHT TEMPERATURE CONTROL IF I USE MILK IN MY DAILY DRINK? I use a 6oz intelligentsia coffee cappuccino cup.. Maybe 80/20 or even 90/10 espresso to cow juice.  

And second.  Is the PSTAT noises going to be an issue if its not on all day?  I expect my machine will only be on a timer from 4am to 6am.  Thus, making my coffee around 5:45.  So lets say two hours per day max.

Posted August 4, 2010 link

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tdblanchard
Senior Member
tdblanchard
Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 36
Location: Bucks County PA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rocket Espresso Giotto...
Grinder: Baratza Vario & Virtuoso
Vac Pot: Yama 8 Cup Stovetop
Drip: Cuisinart DCC-1200 - French...
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Sun Oct 31, 2010, 11:13am
Subject: Re: Rocket Espresso Giotto Evoluzione
 

Hi there everyone ... just wanted to say hello as a new Giotto Evoluzione owner of just a week.   I'm loving it so far and have realized what a kick ass job I was doing with my old machine.   This Rocket makes it easy!  :)  Well as easy as we want as coffee geeks :)    Cheers.    Tom
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micsam2106
Senior Member


Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Posts: 1
Location: Australia
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Rocket Giotto Evoluzione
Grinder: Rancillo Rocky Doserless
Roaster: I-Roast II
Posted Sun Oct 31, 2010, 6:21pm
Subject: Re: Rocket Espresso Giotto Evoluzione
 

Hi Everyone, i am new here so hopefully i post this correctly.

I just purchased a Giotto Evoluzione, and just have a couple questions about using it.

Below is the steps i do to make a coffee.

1) turn the machine on
2) wait for pressure to reach 1.2 bar
3) Let some steam out of wand
4) run 1 cup of water out of filter (group head)
5) make coffee

Is this correct or can i just wait for it to reach 1 bar and make coffee.

Also, it drips water from the the infusion piston constantly. It only stops if i run a back flush or after I make a coffee or run atleast 1 cup water from group head.

2nd question, will a Rancillo Rocky doserless grinder be ok for this machine?

Any advice would be much appreciated since i know you guys are experts in coffee machines.

Kindest regards
Michael
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