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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Bezzera owners...  
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JonR10
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JonR10
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 10,376
Location: Houston, Texas
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: E61 Legend, Livietta,...
Grinder: Robur, B-Vario-W
Vac Pot: Hario Tabletop, Yama...
Drip: Technivorm
Roaster: 1-lb US Roaster, Behmor 1600
Posted Fri Jan 29, 2010, 6:44am
Subject: Re: Bezzera owners thread..Why do you hate/like/love your machine? Tips and Tric
 

retfeg Said:

My pours are 25 seconds and I am getting 2-2.5 oz of coffe.
I am using Rocky set to 5-6.  My true zero is at 2.  I tried coarser, but don't like the results.
I have tried WDT and it is a little better, but not by much.

Posted January 29, 2010 link

Hmmm.....depending on the blend 2-2.5 ounces is probably too much from 14g
Try grinding one notch finer and shoot for 1.25-1.5 ounces on 25 seconds and see if that tastes better

You also might try upping the dose to 16, or 18, or maybe even 20g

As time has passed things have changed for me.  I won't bore you with history except to say that I have favored different practices at different times.  I used to only make grind adjustments, but now I use also dose as a variable to help control shot time and volume.  

Example: if the current grind gives 2.5 ounces in 25 seconds from 14g, then I might try keeping everything else the same and upping the dose to 18g in the hopes that I will change the flow to get 1.75 oz in 25 seconds.  

Also, sometimes I will make the grind finer to reduce the dose and keep the timing the same - or sometimes maybe make the grind courser to increace the dose and keep the timing the same.  The variables all work together.  

Hope this is helpful,
J

 
Jon Rosenthal
Houston, TX
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jammin
Senior Member
jammin
Joined: 25 Nov 2009
Posts: 666
Location: Boise
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Vario-W
Vac Pot: Hario
Drip: manual
Roaster: quest m3
Posted Fri Jan 29, 2010, 6:51am
Subject: Re: Bezzera owners thread..Why do you hate/like/love your machine? Tips and Tric
 

retfeg Said:

Jackson,

I am probably overtamping.  I will try a lighter touch.
What does blonding really mean?

Posted January 29, 2010 link

blonding is just a visual cue that the extraction is done(the coffee has given all its good stuff up).  You can tell when the coffee gets really light and watery.  It is a good indicator that it is time to stop brewing as the coffee you are getting is going downhill quick.  If you have a bathroom scale you can put the PF right on it and get a feel for 30#'s OR you can stand on it(the scale) and tamp till' the scale reads your bodyweight - 30.

i bet with just a little experimentation you will be getting some terrific results.


Cheers,
Jackson

 
roast your own
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JonR10
Senior Member
JonR10
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 10,376
Location: Houston, Texas
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: E61 Legend, Livietta,...
Grinder: Robur, B-Vario-W
Vac Pot: Hario Tabletop, Yama...
Drip: Technivorm
Roaster: 1-lb US Roaster, Behmor 1600
Posted Fri Jan 29, 2010, 6:53am
Subject: Re: Bezzera owners thread..Why do you hate/like/love your machine? Tips and Tric
 

retfeg Said:

What does blonding really mean?

Posted January 29, 2010 link

Different folks think differently about this.
Here are a couple of cool pages to help understand what we mean though...

This one is very good - click here

And maybe my favorite was in slow motion - click here

 
Jon Rosenthal
Houston, TX
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tedegreene
Senior Member
tedegreene
Joined: 4 Oct 2005
Posts: 164
Location: JACKSONVILLE

Espresso: Bezzera BZ40
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Fri Jan 29, 2010, 9:18am
Subject: Direct drain ideas for BZ07
 

Nijo1973 Said:

Drip Tray: I felt that the drip tray was somehow small....and could have easily been twice the size....that is a design aspect, as the drip tray, "looks" big and deep, but in fact, it is shallow and small....it seems a lot of wasted and unused space...but that wold force me to clean it more often than I do with my Isomac Brio which has a huge tray relative to its size.

Steam:The 4 hole steam tip seems (at least initially) an overkill for small amounts of milk.

Posted January 28, 2010 link

Short answer first. Steam: You can plug up some of the holes with toothpicks to slow steam release to a more leisurely pace while you learn to foam then remove them for speed as your skill improves.

Drip Tray: Looking at the BZ07 parts diagram your tray looks suspiciously like mine which is designed to drain directly into plumbing and doesn't need to hold much. Like mine yours appears to have a round depression in the center of the tray.  On mine the depression is drilled out and drains into a tub connected to a dishwasher drain fitting on the sink via a hose.  The tub is attached to the frame and stays behind when you remove the tray for cleaning.  You mentioned the feet raise the machine off the counter.  You might consider drilling a drain in the tray and placing a larger container below that you could empty less frequently. You could even add a bulkhead connector to the container so it drains directly into your sink's plumbing via a hole in the counter top. Also consider if you can attach a tub to the frame as described so the tray hides the tub but it stays in place when you remove the tray. Very convenient.  Here is an example: click here for a drain tub example.  More types are available from the main store>generic parts>drain tube. click here for main store

Check out page five of the Galatea Domus diagram linked in the first post of this thread for a direct plumb drip tray that looks even more like yours.
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Nijo1973
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Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 44
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Bezzera BZ07 / Mini Vivaldi...
Grinder: Le'lit PL53 / Macap M4
Posted Fri Jan 29, 2010, 3:18pm
Subject: Re: Bezzera owners thread..Why do you hate/like/love your machine? Tips and Tric
 

retfeg Said:

Gentleman,

Welcome back.
Thanks very much for starting this thread.
I am enjoying my new BZ07 very much so far.
Trying to perfect my technique.  I got a bottomless portafilter from Jim and it is, indeed, a great learning tool.
At this point, I am getting a lot of blonding, and trying to figure out what it is ythat I can adjust to get more of a perfect shot.
I use a fresh coffee and put about 14-15 grams of it.
Any ideas?
The machine is great so far, huge improvement over the Gaggia Classic I had before.

Posted January 29, 2010 link

Great To know you are enjoying it.....likewise here.....it will get a real test this Sunday with a Huge crown.....
we are having close to 15 people......so we'll see how it performs in s stress situation....
Meanwhile, I was not able able to get the microfoam with small amount of Milk (for one cup)...this thing is a steaming beast....
but I was able to get a great foam in a 33Oz pitcher for 3 drinks....so with that, I went ahead and ordered to 4 micro holes (0.09 mm) from Chris's coffee vs the standard 1.3mm 4 hole standard on the machine...so that should help  with steaming small amounts of Milk....
will report on that later
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jammin
Senior Member
jammin
Joined: 25 Nov 2009
Posts: 666
Location: Boise
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Vario-W
Vac Pot: Hario
Drip: manual
Roaster: quest m3
Posted Fri Jan 29, 2010, 4:19pm
Subject: Tips and Tricks
 

GATOR,

You are spot on about the drip tray.  The BZ07 drip tray comes prepped for a drain kit.  There is a depression in the center as you described.  I have been considering this but haven't been able to locate the right parts yet.  I will check out the first post and see what it looks like.  That would be sooo handy.


Nijo,

Def. keep me/us posted on your new steaming tip.  I ordered the Bezzera 2-hole from 1st line but it doesn't fit.  I have had similar results w/foaming as you so if that new tip works good for you I would like to get one as well.

 
roast your own
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jammin
Senior Member
jammin
Joined: 25 Nov 2009
Posts: 666
Location: Boise
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Vario-W
Vac Pot: Hario
Drip: manual
Roaster: quest m3
Posted Fri Jan 29, 2010, 4:29pm
Subject: BZ07 flushing and dispersion block.
 

Ashamed to say it, but I just now got around to pulling the shower screen for a cleaning.  I didn't have the right screwdriver till' today.

Upon pulling it I found there is a large brass plate(dispersion block?) between the group and the shower screen.  I pulled some water through the group w/o anything there and the water flash boiled pretty good! From the time I hit the brew button and the water to "calm down" it was extactly 10 seconds - I timed it.  Since I have never seen water flash boil out of the group before, I have to believe that heavy brass plate acts as a heat sink to pull the brew water to the correct temp.  Regardless, I am going to start playing with 10 second flushes now to see what it does.  GATOR, I would like to hear your, as well other's thoughts on how this affects flushing time.

I will post some pics of the brass plate and the inside of the group if you guys think it would help.


Cheers,
Jackson

 
roast your own
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tedegreene
Senior Member
tedegreene
Joined: 4 Oct 2005
Posts: 164
Location: JACKSONVILLE

Espresso: Bezzera BZ40
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Fri Jan 29, 2010, 11:05pm
Subject: More short flushing discussion, theory.
 

Jammin, Yes the big brass parts act as a buffer to pull the water temp up or down as needed. It can pull a lot of heat from water thatís too hot or donate a lot to water that's too cool. The water dance as some call the flashing steam is an indicator that the water is above 212 degrees in the pipes before it hits normal atmospheric pressure. It instantly falls to 212 at that point and starts rapidly cooling while the excess heat is lost to the brass or carried away with the steam. This is true for all machines. To see how ours differ, refer to parts 6 and 2 on page 11 of the BZ07 diagram click here.  6  is the heat exchange chamber 2 is a Teflon tube feeding cold water into the bottom of the chamber. When you flush without coffee blocking the path, cold water rushes into the chamber unimpeded causing turbulence which will rapidly mix the incoming cold water with the hot already in the chamber.  The super-hot water that you flushed out and replaced will rapidly cool in the tubing between the HX and the group head when you stop flushing and while you attach the portafilter.  When you start the pump the second time the water will flow much more slowly and without turbulence because the coffee is blocking its path. Instead of mixing like before, the slow moving cold water will tend to remain at the bottom of the HX chamber (hot water rises, cold sinks) and push the now correct temperature water in the chamber out of the top to the coffee in the filter basket.  You are mixing 70 degree water with 245 degree water which is a 175 degree differential. You only need to pull the water in the HX down 45 degrees to be in the right range and itís not going to take much water 175 degrees cooler to move it those 45.  I would try flushing by volume.  Two ounces total was enough to bring mine to 197 degrees during the brew cycle according to the thermocouple I hooked up last night. The water dance hadnít even stopped at that point and the temp gauge was reading 206. Never the less, just a couple of seconds later the gauge read 197 during the pull. Note Iím not talking two ounces after the water dance stops but rather two ounces start to finish total flush. My rotary pump takes just 3 seconds for the pull temp to be approaching too cool.  It flows at a rate10 times greater during the flush than the pull so it mixes water in the chamber during the flush then pushes water during the pull.  10 seconds might be too much, I suggest you see how long it takes to flush a normal shot volume and start there with a basket ready to go. But every machine is different and by all means try different amounts too.
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JonR10
Senior Member
JonR10
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 10,376
Location: Houston, Texas
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: E61 Legend, Livietta,...
Grinder: Robur, B-Vario-W
Vac Pot: Hario Tabletop, Yama...
Drip: Technivorm
Roaster: 1-lb US Roaster, Behmor 1600
Posted Fri Jan 29, 2010, 11:27pm
Subject: Re: BZ07 flushing and dispersion block.
 

There are a couple of differences between the home version and the bigger commercial version so I would expect the flushing routines to be a little different as well.  For starters, it seems to me that the flow and subsequent pressure ramp of a vibe pump is much different than for a rotary pump.

I would suggest taking some temperature measurements to learn how your own machine reacts to different flushing routines.  It may be true that a 2-ounce flush works for both, but unless you get some measurements you will not know for sure.  

Another advantage of taking measurements will be gaining a better ability to predictably change the brewing temperature with reasonable accuracy on the fly.

 
Jon Rosenthal
Houston, TX
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IMAWriter
Senior Member
IMAWriter
Joined: 4 Jul 2002
Posts: 5,891
Location: Brentwood, TN
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Strega
Grinder: Forte, OE Pharos,...
Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup
Drip: Brazen, Kalita, Chemex,...
Roaster: Behmor 1600+, CO/UFO combo
Posted Sat Jan 30, 2010, 12:24am
Subject: Re: BZ07 flushing and dispersion block.
 

No comment, other than to say this a beautifully run thread!
SOOOOOO nice and peaceful, great trading of info, good stuff!
Excellent work, folks!

 
Rob J (LMWDP #187)
My Music Production web site:
www.robertjason.com
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