Posted Tue Jan 5, 2010, 10:32am Subject: ECM / Rocket Giotto User Group
Not sure if one exists but perhaps we can start our own thread to share experiences and tips. I'm certain there are other lovers of this machine out there.
Posted Tue Jan 5, 2010, 8:39pm Subject: Re: ECM / Rocket Giotto User Group
Lots of love for ECM; I sold my Giotto a few months ago, only because I don't steam milk and have no need for a HX machine. I happily returned to my ECM Boticelli I single-boiler model that I've used for several years. Best machine I've ever had. I hope to modify with a PID soon.
boyscout Senior Member Joined: 29 Dec 2009 Posts: 404 Location: Toronto Expertise: I like coffee
Posted Wed Jan 6, 2010, 9:10am Subject: Re: ECM / Rocket Giotto User Group
Count me in. After months in an agony of indecision reading strong opinions about various machines, I decided to buy a Vibiemme DoubleDomo, and headed to a dealer in my region to pick one up. I came home with... a Rocket Giotto Professional! After a week of use, I'm very pleased.
Just two disappointments.
1) The rotary pump is surprisingly noisy, almost as noisy as the vibrating pump in the same machine
2) It wastes a LOT of heat from its un-insulated boiler. When left on all day, cups left on top were almost too hot to handle, and the kitchen cupboard above the machine became very warm, no food could have been kept in it. The heating element clicked on very frequently, I didn't time it, but maybe every ten minutes or so, so I worried about energy use.
To address the latter problem I just this morning completed the task of insulating the boiler. At a plumbing supply place I got a sheet of half-inch glass insulation with a foil-paper backing, and some aluminum foil tape. There are many pipes and sensors going in/out of the boiler, but with two largish pieces and several smaller ones I was able to cover most of the boiler, being careful not to let any aluminum rest near electrical contacts.
The difference is already obvious after a few hours. The cupboard above the machine is just above room temperature, items on top are warm but not hot, and the heating element cycles on less frequently. Curiously, I also seem to be getting better brew pressure, though I did not adjust the Sirai. Boiler pressure is still just around 1 bar, maybe very slightly higher, but while I was usually getting just over 8 bars brew pressure before, two pulls this morning have been up at about 9.
I'm feeling love, and would be pleased to see a Giotto group form here.
thomgonzales Senior Member Joined: 6 Jan 2010 Posts: 1 Location: Chicago, IL Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Wed Jan 6, 2010, 6:49pm Subject: Re: ECM / Rocket Giotto User Group
In the same position you were in at the beginning of the year and would love your counsel. Are you happy with your Rocket Giotto Professional? Do you have any buyers remorse? Would you have preferred the Rocket Giotto Premium Plus given that the noise level appears to be the same between Rocket vibe and rotary pumps? I'm about to pull the trigger so I'd love your thoughts.
boyscout Senior Member Joined: 29 Dec 2009 Posts: 404 Location: Toronto Expertise: I like coffee
Posted Wed Jan 6, 2010, 7:28pm Subject: Re: ECM / Rocket Giotto User Group
thomgonzales Said:
In the same position you were in at the beginning of the year and would love your counsel. Are you happy with your Rocket Giotto Professional? Do you have any buyers remorse? Would you have preferred the Rocket Giotto Premium Plus given that the noise level appears to be the same between Rocket vibe and rotary pumps? I'm about to pull the trigger so I'd love your thoughts.
If this was directed at me Tom, I've had it barely more than a week but no, no remorse so far. I like the Professional over the Premium because it's plumbed-in, no filling of a water tank. Plumbing-in wasn't a big task for me, as we already had a reverse-osmosis water system, so only a few connectors and some plastic tubing were required (I threw in an extra filter for good measure.) The Professional also has a brew pressure guage the Premium does not have - nice-to-have information.
I'm already making caps and lattes as good as anything I've had, fairly (but not completely) consistently. In addition to the machine get a very good grinder and very good coffee - some say these are more important than the machine. I replaced a Rancillio Rocky grinder with a Compak K3 Touch grinder when I bought the Giotto, and think it does a much better job, producing a smoother, fluffier grind that tamps very evenly.
JNichol Senior Member Joined: 21 Oct 2009 Posts: 26 Location: Vancouver Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1, Olympia Cremina Grinder: Mazzer Major Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Wed Jan 6, 2010, 8:17pm Subject: Re: ECM / Rocket Giotto User Group
I have also seen on the market a plumb kit for the Premium Plus machine. I know that espressotec offers it as an option when buying your machine. Has anybody used the kit?
boyscout Senior Member Joined: 29 Dec 2009 Posts: 404 Location: Toronto Expertise: I like coffee
Posted Tue Jan 12, 2010, 3:03pm Subject: Re: ECM / Rocket Giotto User Group
Just in case any prospective or existing Giotto user is interested...
I have a device that measures power consumption over time, and have used it to measure the consumption of a Rocket Giotto Professional left turned on all day. After several days of testing, I can report the following.
IMPORTANT NOTE: I have INSULATED the boiler of my Giotto, using 1/2-inch foil-backed glass insulation, which I believe has made a significant difference in retaining heat and reducing the amount of power required to keep the machine at the ready.
In a nine-hour day, including the relatively high power consumption required to get the machine warmed up in the morning, the Giotto has used between 1.65 and 1.80 kwh of power, depending on the number of drinks made.
The lower number was today, when I made three double lattes. The higher number was a couple of days ago, making four double lattes and three mugs (10 oz) of hot water for tea.
We're on variable-rate power here - its price changes depending on the time of day of usage - so I haven't figured out our exact cost, but believe that it's under 25 cents for the day (daytime power is our most-expensive.) Leaving it on all night instead would cost about 1/3 of that amount here.
Again, the insulation of the boiler probably reduces consumption considerably. I wasn't clever enough to test before insulating.
I actually DO have a life, but we want to do what we can to keep energy consumption under control. It looks like leaving it on is less energy-consuming than turning it on and off for five or more drinks per day.
boyscout Senior Member Joined: 29 Dec 2009 Posts: 404 Location: Toronto Expertise: I like coffee
Posted Tue Jan 12, 2010, 3:14pm Subject: Re: ECM / Rocket Giotto User Group
Following is an edited version of a message I posted in another thread, posted here for the (possible) interest of others owning or exploring the Rocket Giotto and wondering about its performance in serving multiple drinks.
To make two large double-shot lattes, I steamed a large pitcher of milk, a measured 20 oz from a very cold fridge. It took a long time, two minutes, 5 seconds to reach 160 degrees with nice foam. The boiler pressure had dropped way down to about .3 bar by the time it was done, but it was still putting out steam and milk temp was still climbing.
When I turned off the steam, the pump kicked in to refill the boiler. It would not always have to do that... the boiler was not likely full when I started.
By the time I cleaned the steam wand, ground and tamped my first shot, and put it into the group, the machine was back to 100%, 1 bar boiler pressure. I did four shots in quick succession, they don't faze the machine at all.
Total production time: seven minutes, fifty-five seconds, not rushing. I'd guess that several more shots could be pulled, and then another jug of milk steamed, and still come in under 12 minutes.
So, if anyone is wondering how the Giotto would cope with serving caps to a dinner party of eight, this might help.
NOTE: I have insulated the boiler on my Giotto with 1/2-inch glass insulation, which may slightly improve performance in this scenario.
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