Over the past 3 months, my life has changed a lot ... my finacee bought me an espresso machine! - A good looking brushed steel Sunbeam Cafe Crema. I know it's not a Rancilio Silvia, but for a beginner, i've been happy with it.
She hates coffee herself, but loves the hot chocolates a make for her with it, while i enjoy my flat whites and double lattes.
On top of this, the day after I got the machine, i made a new friend, Dave, who shares a love of coffee. He has got me into Latte Art, and now even home roasting! (My fiancee wants to kill dave...i spent lots of money on a grinder when i should be saving for a wedding) I've loved experimentation, and i'm even impressing the guys down at my local cafe, which makes one of the best coffee's in sydney IMHO.
After reading so many reviews, and after noticing some corrosion inside the steaming wand, i'm thinking about upgrading, but due to the $ issue (I'm going back to full-time study next year after marrying a nurse - bad combo!) 'm sure it won't happen for a while.
Everyone seems to love the Rancilio Silvia, but this is way too expensive for me. Other machines i have been keen on are gaggia machines (baby, coffee, or maybe a carezza) - but i'm concerned about leakage problems, which so many people are mentioning. I want something with a boiler, rather than a thermoblock (although my experience with a thermoblock is ok... some will want to crucify me for saying this...).
Also, i noticed at Myers the other day, a Saeco Via Venezia, but can't find much said about it.
HELP! I would like to hear from people's experiences with the above machines, or if you know of anywhere to get a cheap rancilio in sydney ...
The Via Venezia is basically the same as the Starbucks Barista machine (there are tons of reviews on here), Starbucks just threw their name on the machine here in the states, but it's the same one. Not a bad machine--all metal, quality pump & innards. I had one of these before I got my rancilio audrey, and now my silvia. A quick comparison:
-Boiler is stainless steel (if I remember correctly), as opposed to brass on Silvia. Doesn't really effect performance. -Pumps are both strong Ulka models, and very comparable--at least here in the states. -Exterior on both machines is sturdy, metal. Both come in stainless steel, though you can get the Venezia in painted steel. I doubt the painted steel is stainless, and is therefore susceptible to rust.
The main differences are: -Group size is 53mm on the Saeco, 58mm "pro" size on the Rancilio. -Rancilio group is a hunk of solid brass, not sure about Saeco (maybe stainless?) -Rancilio has a Solenoid to relieve pressure after the shot, Saeco does not -Rancilio has an extremely heavy brass portafilter, Saeco has a pressurized portafilter. If you have a good grinder, you'd want to replace the pressurized PF immediately.
The Saeco is actually not a bad machine, it's very sturdy and produces decent, even good espresso. However, here in the states, if you're shopping new, the Barista/via venezia is $399 in the stores (you have to pay tax) and the Silvia is $445 delivered with no tax at most retailers. With this small price difference, it's a no brainer.
In Australia, I'm not sure how much each is, but I'd definitely say the Saeco is worth paying a little less than half the cost of a Silvia. I'm not sure of your ebay situation in Australia, here in the states Silvias go for about $50 - $100 less than retail for used ($350-$400). However, Audreys (Silvia's ugly sister) go for about $150-$200, and have the same innards as the Silvia. Same size boiler, all brass, same exact group, same electrics, portafilter (on some incarnations), and a 3 way valve, all packed into an ugly body! The only difference in parts, other than the body, is that Audrey lacks a "hot water" switch. Power, steam and brew are the three switches. However, it does have a 3 hole steam wand, and produces excellent froth--a selling point if your wife-to-be likes hot chocolate or steamed milk. You can also make wonderful frothed Chai Latte with the frother.
Another option would be the Quaha, Le'Lit, or whatever it's called there in Australia, if they're even sold there. These are beautiful looking machines, some stainless steel from top to bottom with nice brass boilers, and good performers (from what I've read). However, you won't get the same support base that you have for the Rancilios or Saecos, and they have an oddly-sized 57mm group.
See this post for more info about the different names of the Quaha machines.
I've linked to the beanery 'cause it was the first page that came up on google. I linked to Alan's page because a) I know that he sells the mokita and b) I bought my Silvia from him and can tell you that he's fantastic. I saw him do a repair on the internals of a customer's machine in about 2min whilst talking me through Silvia and he "torture-tests" his machines for a few days before shipping them off to make sure that there are no problems.
Anyhoo, I think that the side-by-side comparison ends up being in favour of the Mokita:
Price: Mokita $525 (delivered) Saeco $600
Portafilter: Mokita has an almost-commercial 57mm vs a 53mm PRESSURISED portafilter.
Water tank: Saeco is 0.9L larger, at 2.9L
Weight: Mokita is 2.2kg heavier (weight=quality!)
Valve: Mokita has a 3-way solenoid valve, Saeco doesn't
Element: Mokita is 1200W, Saeco is 950W
Steam wand: Mokita has no "froth aider", Saeco does ("froth aider" = microfoam hinderer, k?)
Don't know about boiler size, but I'd be surprised if the Saeco had more than the Mokita's 300mL. The mokita also has a huge (1.3L) drip tray (twice the size of Silvia's!).
Alan has an old article that steps you through what you need to look for. Easy to think that it's self-serving, but a look through coffeegeek will reveal that most people agree with his observations.
One downside to the mokita, though; the built-in tamper isn't as good as it should be. You can get a custom-made one from Greg Pullman, which would bring the whole setup up to the Saeco's price.
Oh, and I'd steer away from gaggias ... I've heard reports that the aluminium boiler can corrode (I've also heard a lot of good things, but why take the risk?). That said, gaggias have a lot going for them, like the commercial portafilter ... they've all got the goofy "froth-aider," though.
Over the past 3 months, my life has changed a lot ... my finacee bought me an espresso machine!
She wouldn't have a sister, by any chance? ;)
On top of this, the day after I got the machine, i made a new friend, Dave, who shares a love of coffee. He has got me into Latte Art, and now even home roasting!
There are Sydney home roasters I don't know about?! (We have occasional get-togethers. Drop me an email: paul at haddon.org)
(My fiancee wants to kill dave...i spent lots of money on a grinder when i should be saving for a wedding)
A wedding's over in a day. A good grinder can be for life.
Everyone seems to love the Rancilio Silvia, but this is way too expensive for me. Other machines i have been keen on are gaggia machines (baby, coffee, or maybe a carezza) - but i'm concerned about leakage problems, which so many people are mentioning.
I've owned both the Carezza and the Classic, and found them to be good newbie machines. Both have gone on to deserving homes and are still working well. I never encountered the problems people have reported, but I only used each for less than a year, I'd have to say.
HELP! I would like to hear from people's experiences with the above machines, or if you know of anywhere to get a cheap rancilio in sydney ...
<insert-canned-laughter-here>
You're doing well if you can find a Silvia in Sydney, much less a cheap one. And looking to eBay or the Trading Post is no use there, either. There's quite a few Gaggias on eBay but I could count the number of used Silvias I've seen on one hand.
Thanks so much for all the quick replies! Really helpful!
That Mokita looks so much like a machine i saw in DJ's yesterday, which you can get from Mosman, called 'Nemox', (built in tamp and everything, but funkier buttons and knobs ... plus a pressure guage which really looked a bit useless) which is referred to in one of the links you posted. It looked nice, but the PF was only 53mm. So that's cool that there's a similar machine around but with a bigger pf. they also had a bigger nemox thing with the grinder built in, but still only the smaller pf. Maybe the shop in mosman sells a model with a bigger pf???
I agree that the froth enhancer is definately a microfoam hinderer ... i took mine off and threw it away the day i got the machine (onoly after giving it a go and deciding against it...).
As for the Mokita and the Quaha ... a little bit confused, but going by pictures alone on Alan Frew's site, it seems the only difference is a few $, and the controls are in different spots. Is that right?
If anyone in sydney is interested, i got an email from Rancilio, telling me to check out their Australian Agent in Sydney, (no shop, just a phone number), if anyone's keen for the number, email me and i'll forward it to you. Still out of my price range, but i can have dreams...
Found a pic of the nemox thing...
Again, thanks for all the help!
P.S. Paul, she was a twin, but the twin sister died before they were born...!
While I would not question that the the Saeco/Barista does not compare quality-wise to the Silvia, I would question the price comparison. The Barista is often available for a sale price more in the $250-300 range (less if you have a friend who works for Starbucks and is willing to use their 30-40% discount for you) than the supposed $399 list price. My guess is that Starbucks sells the majority of their machines during their sales - so the sale price is a better comparison. if you are easily satisfied like me, the Barista likely will do you fine. Still, with all the Silvia Lovers here singing her praises, don't all of us who are Silvia-less think, "That Silvia gal must make greeeeaaat espresso!" and long just a little, for one night (or, better - one morning) alone with her?
I had a Barista prior to getting into the Rancilio line, and it is a nice, sturdy starter machine. The sales are only 2x a year (from what I recall) though, not year round. However, the gentleman searching for a machine is from Australia, and I'm not too sure what their pricing/availability is in Australia.
How much are all these machines, out of curiosity, in Australia, and what is the exchange rate?
I think that the exchange rate is currently something like $1AU ~ $0.75US. Even going by the exchange rates, machines are more expensive here because of shipping et al. A new Silvia retails for around $750, most HX machines are around $2K and a gaggia classic has an rrp of about $600 (all in AUD).
Matt,
I think that korngold's first post has a link in it to the in-depth discussion ... Alan cleared all this up; basically, the one in DJs is nothing like the one that Alan sells. 120ml boiler v 300ml boiler ... that's quite a difference! Alan's evaluation article that I linked you to refers to the Quaha, which is equivalent to the Mokita that he now sells. Yes, there are models with a built-in grinder, but your solis grinder is probably up to the task.
As for Quaha/Nemox/Imat v Silvia; I think that 99% of people would probably be satisfied with the former. The difference is basically that between a top-end domestic machine and a really, really, really scaled down commercial machine. However, I'm sure that a skilled person on the Quaha/etc. machine will make a better coffee than a less skilled person on the Silvia.
As for Quaha/Nemox/Imat v Silvia; I think that 99% of people would probably be satisfied with the former. The difference is basically that between a top-end domestic machine and a really, really, really scaled down commercial machine. However, I'm sure that a skilled person on the Quaha/etc. machine will make a better coffee than a less skilled person on the Silvia.
Yeah, i got that impression from the link, and other articles i read on the site. Thanks heaps, it was really informative and helpful! I'll probably go for the Mokita (when i can finally scrape the money together...). I even copied the picture from the link to my computer so i can look at it every day and work towards it... what a dag! (sorry to all the americans who might not understand what a dag is...)
Now the next step is convincing the fiancee that i'll need to upgrade without offending her! I think that may take a while... and lots of hot chocolates...
...and then finding a shop or someone who owns one in sydney so i can have a test run before i buy...
p.s. the via venezia (*$ barista) goes for about $300+ from memory.
I also realised that I forgot to mention the Solis SL 70, which is by all reports a fantastic little machine ... have a look for reviews. I'm sure that this or the Mokita/whatever would be more or less equivalent, but thought that I should mention it because you're probably more likely to be able to find it to demo in Sydney. Just be aware that you'd need to buy an aftermarket non-pressurised basket.
If you take one of the mokita/whatever machines for a spin, make bloody well sure that you know that it's the one that you're after! Take a ruler with you and check the portafilter diameter!
The solution for the g/f problem is easy! Let the machine keep corroding and start overheating her hot chocolates. Attribute it to the machine and tell her that you've found one that won't corrode :P
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