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GS/3 Paddle Owners: How are you using your paddle control?
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MarshallF
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MarshallF
Joined: 1 Jun 2003
Posts: 810
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: LM GS/3 MP
Grinder: Mahlkonig ProM; Baratza...
Vac Pot: Hario Nouveau, Bodum ESantos
Drip: Clever Dripper
Posted Wed Dec 16, 2009, 11:10pm
Subject: GS/3 Paddle Owners: How are you using your paddle control?
 

I'm hoping that GS/3P owners will share their paddle control experiences here, so we can pick up tips from each other, especially about the effects of the paddle on the cup.

Professional baristas mostly use their Synesso paddles as on/off switches. They feel too rushed to tend to them and rely on the gicleur for preinfusion. But, I assume that any GS/3 buyer who gave up the automation conveniences of the standard GS/3 or passed up the "fire sale" bargains has a serious interest in exploiting the pressure control potential of the paddle.

We only had our machine plumbed in two days ago. So, it's way too soon for me to have any useful conclusions. My initial experiments have been based on using line pressure (regulated to 3 bar) until the first drops appear on the bottom of the basket, indicating full preinfusion. This seems to take from about 6 to 9 seconds with my usual dosing. Then I run the pump until the shot barely starts to lighten (maybe 17 to 20 seconds) and then go back to line pressure until the pour pretty much stops on its own (maybe another 3 to 5 seconds).

I am getting complex and interesting shots (only about 15 total at this point), with a couple of outstanding ones included. There is a lot of crema and body, but, possibly less sweetness than I am used to. Of course, I'm experimenting with different doses, temperatures and water softening at the same time, so this is far from methodical or scientific.

As I noted, the flow seems to stop on its own in the third (line pressure) phase, which suggests the fines migrate to a point where they present a barrier to 3 bar of pressure.

Anyone with more paddle experience have something to suggest?
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MarshallF
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MarshallF
Joined: 1 Jun 2003
Posts: 810
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: LM GS/3 MP
Grinder: Mahlkonig ProM; Baratza...
Vac Pot: Hario Nouveau, Bodum ESantos
Drip: Clever Dripper
Posted Fri Dec 18, 2009, 7:05am
Subject: Re: GS/3 Paddle Owners: How are you using your paddle control?
 

Yesterday I bumped the line pressure up from 3 bar to 4, thinking that would strengthen the "post infusion" flow. It did, but the coffee lost complexity. Back to 3 bar now. Now testing shorter pump infusion times and longer post infusion times.
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MarshallF
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MarshallF
Joined: 1 Jun 2003
Posts: 810
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: LM GS/3 MP
Grinder: Mahlkonig ProM; Baratza...
Vac Pot: Hario Nouveau, Bodum ESantos
Drip: Clever Dripper
Posted Fri Dec 18, 2009, 9:21pm
Subject: Re: GS/3 Paddle Owners: How are you using your paddle control?
 

Best combination so far:
Pressure: 3 bar line and 9 bar pump
Preinfuse until coffee just starts to drip from the spout (put bottomless away): 8-10 seconds.
Pump on about 15-18 seconds.
Post infuse 4-5 seconds.

The coffee is complex, well-balanced, full-bodied and lightly sweet. For consistency's sake (the only consistent point in my tests), I've been using the same 2-lb. bag of coffee for all my shots.
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pdx
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Joined: 9 Feb 2004
Posts: 36
Location: portland
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: speedster
Grinder: versalab m3
Drip: Chemex
Posted Sun Dec 20, 2009, 10:10am
Subject: Re: GS/3 Paddle Owners: How are you using your paddle control?
 

MarshallF Said:

Best combination so far:
Pressure: 3 bar line and 9 bar pump
Preinfuse until coffee just starts to drip from the spout (put bottomless away): 8-10 seconds.
Pump on about 15-18 seconds.
Post infuse 4-5 seconds.

Posted December 18, 2009 link

Hi Marshall,

fwiw this is basically the same thing I do with my Synesso.  I regulated the line pressure down to about 3 bar, preinfuse until I get drips, give line pressure for about 12-18 seconds (depending on experience with the particular coffee), then postinfuse for a few seconds.
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MarshallF
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MarshallF
Joined: 1 Jun 2003
Posts: 810
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: LM GS/3 MP
Grinder: Mahlkonig ProM; Baratza...
Vac Pot: Hario Nouveau, Bodum ESantos
Drip: Clever Dripper
Posted Sun Dec 20, 2009, 11:09am
Subject: Re: GS/3 Paddle Owners: How are you using your paddle control?
 

pdx Said:

fwiw this is basically the same thing I do with my Synesso.  I regulated the line pressure down to about 3 bar, preinfuse until I get drips, give line pressure for about 12-18 seconds (depending on experience with the particular coffee), then postinfuse for a few seconds.

Posted December 20, 2009 link

Nice to get some confirmation. I was starting to think people were using their paddles as hood ornaments!
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MarkPrince
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Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 5,624
Location: Vancouver, BC
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: KvdW Speedster
Grinder: Versalab M3 Grinder
Vac Pot: A bit too many
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Roaster: Hario Glass Retro Roaster
Posted Sun Dec 20, 2009, 2:09pm
Subject: Re: GS/3 Paddle Owners: How are you using your paddle control?
 

Pretty much the routine I do on both the GS/3 MP and the Speedster, but there's one difference...

My GS/3 is drawing neg. pressure off a floor-sitting 5gallon water bottle.

The tricks inside the GS/3 do a nice preinfusion if you keep it to less than 10 seconds, then the pressure gauge really starts to waver, and the boiler makes all sorts of cavitation sounds. I did Scace/2 the machine when Elysian lent me theirs, and it was serving up about 2bar IIRC (how do they do that!!!!!) pressure on preinfusion.

Post infusion is probably similar - but my guess is, not. Because the solenoid isn't opened (releasing pressure), there's probably a very gradual decline from 9bar (whatever the pump runs at) down to the 2bar range - much slower than the ramp up from line / boiler trick preinfusion pressure to 9bar when you engage the pump.

Still experimenting, as I assume most MP owners are doing. And I'm like 6 months into it!

Mark

 
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JVBorella
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JVBorella
Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 1,166
Location: northeastern CT.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Speedster, Strega, Cremina
Grinder: K10 WBC, Bunnzilla
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Drip: Hario Wooden Neck/Buono
Roaster: Hottop KN-8828P/B
Posted Mon Dec 21, 2009, 5:35am
Subject: Re: GS/3 Paddle Owners: How are you using your paddle control?
 

MarshallF Said:

Best combination so far:
Pressure: 3 bar line and 9 bar pump
Preinfuse until coffee just starts to drip from the spout (put bottomless away): 8-10 seconds.
Pump on about 15-18 seconds.
Post infuse 4-5 seconds..

Posted December 18, 2009 link

I just got my Speedster set up about 10 days ago but I've been playing with pretty much the same thing the past couple days. I haven't seen the post infusion taper off as you mentioned above as I've been letting it run until the first signs of blonding (25-27 sec). Much too soon to say what I prefer as I'm just getting to know this wonderful machine!

 
John
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wogaut
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wogaut
Joined: 21 Sep 2004
Posts: 585
Location: Milwaukee
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: LM GS/3 MP
Grinder: Elektra Nino
Roaster: Hottop+PID
Posted Mon Dec 21, 2009, 9:36am
Subject: Re: GS/3 Paddle Owners: How are you using your paddle control?
 

Interesting comment Mark about the boiler sound.

I noticed that the sound of the water rushing in at line pressure with PI decays at a certain point (have to listen carefully) which is just before the water started dribbling with the bottomless PF (I also use 3bar line pressure). That's the cue I listen for when using the spouted PF.

W.
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MarshallF
Senior Member
MarshallF
Joined: 1 Jun 2003
Posts: 810
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: LM GS/3 MP
Grinder: Mahlkonig ProM; Baratza...
Vac Pot: Hario Nouveau, Bodum ESantos
Drip: Clever Dripper
Posted Mon Dec 21, 2009, 9:55am
Subject: Re: GS/3 Paddle Owners: How are you using your paddle control?
 

As with a normal machine, adjusting grind and dose affects when the pour starts and when it starts to blond. If I use the start of drip and the first signs of blonding as signals to switch from line to pump and back to line, I get shorter preinfusion and pump times and longer post infusion times. These seem to be associated with greater clarity in the cup, which is a very good thing to me. But this is a very, very tentatative theory.
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