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Slayer espresso machine... what a disappointment!
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Slayer espresso...  
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Jeff_J
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Jeff_J
Joined: 13 Nov 2008
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Location: Addison, Texas USA
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Posted Fri Mar 27, 2009, 1:55pm
Subject: Slayer espresso machine... what a disappointment!
 

Been following the thread on this over at HB and it looks like one person finally asked the tough question that really matters for anything pertaining to this brand new halo machine...

"Is it only me or does the machine seriously "only" (I guess that's still quite good) offer 2-step preinfusion and normal full pressure brewing? if so (correct me if I'm wrong) it doesn't offer full pressure profiling" -dsc

^^
So what makes this machine any different from the GS3 paddle or Synesso then? How exactly does this thing represent a "revolution in brewing" again??

The machine could look like a metallic turd for all I care. As long as it offers the holy grail of espresso right now being in the form of fully adjustable pressure somewhere on the grouphead or front faceplate or wherever a la a power screw like on a turbocharged car application, then I could reeeeaaallly care less about it.

 
My Espresso Setup:
Ala di Vittoria La Valentina, PID'd Isomac Zaffiro, La Cremoka Moka, Mazzer Major,
Olympia Cremina 67, La Pavoni PC-16, Rancilio Rocky, Saeco Classico

http://community.mtvmusic.com/profile/jeff_jaworski

----------------------------------------------------
"A lot of people respect you here in the CG community.  I can say that I don't.  in 90% of your posts, you come off as arrogant, conceited, and a show off to me.  If you get mad or defensive, thats fine and natural.  But you should seriously think about that, and think about how you are displaying yourself in this community."
-fellow CG member Pe_tah on moderator JonR10
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Jmanespresso
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Jmanespresso
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 2,109
Location: Westchester NY
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Alex Duetto II
Grinder: Compak K10 - Vario
Vac Pot: Yama-SY5/SY8/TCA5
Drip: V60, Beehouse, CCD
Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Fri Mar 27, 2009, 2:08pm
Subject: Re: Slayer espresso machine... what a disappointment!
 

Well, I too, thought that It did offer full pressure profiling throughout the shot.  I watched a video on youtube about, and until right now, thats what I THOUGHT they were doing.

Hmm.. interesting..I will be following this machine closer now to see what it is capable of.  Id really like to use one as well..but who wouldnt?


Jeff

 
Follow Your Bliss

Coffee makes your constantly overcome your prejudices and re-evaluate your own "received wisdoms" when it comes to judging cup flavors. -Tom Owen, SweetMarias
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Jeff_J
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Jeff_J
Joined: 13 Nov 2008
Posts: 175
Location: Addison, Texas USA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Lots!
Grinder: Major & Rocky
Posted Fri Mar 27, 2009, 2:11pm
Subject: Re: Slayer espresso machine... what a disappointment!
 

It's still a really cool machine - don't get me wrong, but the insanely long and greatly anticipated buildup to this thing wasn't exactly justified in the end IMO.

>> here's a link to the HB discussion on this subject. <<
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Jmanespresso
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Jmanespresso
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 2,109
Location: Westchester NY
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Alex Duetto II
Grinder: Compak K10 - Vario
Vac Pot: Yama-SY5/SY8/TCA5
Drip: V60, Beehouse, CCD
Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Fri Mar 27, 2009, 6:01pm
Subject: Re: Slayer espresso machine... what a disappointment!
 

Jeff,

Thanks for the link, I enjoyed that discussion much.

So, it seems maybe full manual profile isnt ideal, at least in the way it was being discussed in that thread.

What I think would be best, for a machine to be able to be used in a high volume shop with multiple Baristas, AND, at home, with one Home-Barista, who wants the ability to do/change ANYTHING possible to the espresso..it would be something like this...

Have the slayer setup as it is,, with the paddles.  Allow for movements in the paddle to increase/decrease a bar of pressure..much like a stepped grinder.  Three sections on the group, PI, Extract, Decline, all with full pressure down to no pressure.  And, a Brew button.

You could play around with whatever profile you like.. say you want a super high pressure PI.  Put the Paddle to 13BAR.  After however long you deem fit, slide the paddle to the Extraction section, 9BAR for arguments sake.  Then, after more seconds, slide over into decline, and say.. 5 BAR.

Hmm.. that resulting shot is GOOOOOD.  No problem, because the brew button is a programable button, which can remember a profile that you want it to.  Wanna change it?  GO ahead.  Wanna try a different profile, and compare it to your set one?  Use the paddle only.  Then you want another shot with your original profile..use the brew button. Want to program a different profile then your og?  Re-program it.  Oh..you have a multi group and you would like different profiles for each group?  Again..no problem.

This way, the home baristas would be able to, day to day, shot to shot, change and play with whatever profile theyd like.  But shops could also do this after hours..find a profile that works best, program it to the brew button, and be able to hit one button during rush, and still get the completely custom profile, time after time.

Now.. I know next to nothing on how to build a machine, much less develop a system to remember these profiles and all the other components needed.  So.. its likely a machine like this could never be developed.  Or, because slayer hasnt fully released the machines capabilitys, maybe the slayer has something like this.  So, add some salt if im out of my mind, as this is just something I thought would be very cool to have.

Jeff

 
Follow Your Bliss

Coffee makes your constantly overcome your prejudices and re-evaluate your own "received wisdoms" when it comes to judging cup flavors. -Tom Owen, SweetMarias
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wideasleep1
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wideasleep1
Joined: 19 Feb 2005
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Location: Tiburon,Ca
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Espresso: VBMDoubleDomo
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Posted Sat Mar 28, 2009, 2:07pm
Subject: Re: Slayer espresso machine... what a disappointment!
 

A statement from someone who has firsthand experience using a Slayer:

"In all seriousness though, in real life, it's gorgeous. But the real beauty is in the cup. Slide the lever over, and watch as the soft infused 'Spro slowly forms in the drip mirror, then slide it all the way over to hit it with full pressure for a few seconds, then ease off and watch the pressure slide slowly back down to 5 bar through the remainder of the shot... And oh waht a shot... SO MUCH FLAVOR, TEXTURE, BODY!!! It's so much fun to try different things. We've been able to take the grind down to near powder, and eeeaaase the water through, the flecking and the body is unreal. Then using a traditional brew method (flat 9 bar) with the same grind, it basically locks the puck solid. From a Barista's perspective, it's opened an entirely new train of thought on how to appproach Espresso. By changing when you move pressures you can literally pull different flavours out of the beans...

Anyhow, pardon the rambling, I'm a tad over-caffeinated and literally vibrating."


The machine will speak for itself, regardless of the motivations and opinions of those in that thread or this one, or even Joel's comment above. Still, it would be nice for folks to have personal experience on a topic before making irresponsible pronouncements...the personal and professional reputations of folks in our hobby/industry deserve that respect, imho.
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Jeff_J
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Jeff_J
Joined: 13 Nov 2008
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Location: Addison, Texas USA
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Grinder: Major & Rocky
Posted Sat Mar 28, 2009, 3:06pm
Subject: Re: Slayer espresso machine... what a disappointment!
 

wideasleep1 Said:

Still, it would be nice for folks to have personal experience on a topic before making irresponsible pronouncements...the personal and professional reputations of folks in our hobby/industry deserve that respect, imho.

Posted March 28, 2009 link


Please re-read my post. Here's the cliff-notes version of it for you:


"So what makes this machine any different from the GS3 paddle or Synesso then? How exactly does this thing represent a "revolution in brewing" again??" - Jeff_J


I believe during the development of this machine we were led to believe that it was going to offer us full pressure profiling. In my book a three-stage activation system giving the user options of only Off, Pre-Infuse, and Brew hardly constitutes as such.
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HB
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Joined: 3 Apr 2003
Posts: 2,913
Location: Cary, NC
Posted Sat Mar 28, 2009, 4:04pm
Subject: Re: Slayer espresso machine... what a disappointment!
 

I read the title of this thread ("Slayer espresso machine... what a disappointment!") and thought it was commentary from someone who had actually used it. What a disappointment!

-- Dan

 
www.home-barista.com
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JonR10
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JonR10
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
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Location: Houston, Texas
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Espresso: E61 Legend, Livietta,...
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Posted Sat Mar 28, 2009, 4:05pm
Subject: Re: Slayer espresso machine... what a disappointment!
 

Jeff_J Said:

"So what makes this machine any different from the GS3 paddle or Synesso then? How exactly does this thing represent a "revolution in brewing" again??" - Jeff_J  

Posted March 28, 2009 link

Looks like you may have again failed to research thoroughly before making your statement. In this case, creating a bold and even potentially damaging headline based on second-or-thirdhand information you read on a forum post.  I believe that jumping the gun, rushing to make public negative assertions and insinuations is an unproductive M.O. in most cases.  

Here's an interesting read : Click  
And this page has some interesting video  CLICK  
There's quite a bit more if you poke around....  

It may not be "full" pressure profiling, but the softened pressure ramps and the ability to manually alter (and adjust) the pressure profiles with greater articulation would apparently represent an advancement over any currently commercially-available espresso machine, including the Synesso and LaMarzocco paddle group.  

I'm guessing by reading your posts that you may not have ever had the opportunity to really experiment with making espresso yourself using any of these three elite machines (LaMarz w/Paddle group or a Synesso or the new Slayer) as a basis for comparison.  In my opinion this removes any credibility from your criticisms.  


My advice, FWIW:  Try not to be too disappointed until you taste the espresso it makes.  :-)

 
Jon Rosenthal
Houston, TX
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Bitches_Brew
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Bitches_Brew
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Posted Sat Mar 28, 2009, 4:46pm
Subject: Re: Slayer espresso machine... what a disappointment!
 

i would be more than happy to test one for slayer, and post my results, to settle the conteoversy. :)

i can't wait for someone to get one so we can hear about it. right now it is kind of mysterious.(i think that's how they wanted it.)

 
"You can write down how to make the perfect cup of coffee. But to make it really good, you have to play something fictional, you have to dress up, you have to think, This is the most important thing."
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Jeff_J
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Jeff_J
Joined: 13 Nov 2008
Posts: 175
Location: Addison, Texas USA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Lots!
Grinder: Major & Rocky
Posted Sat Mar 28, 2009, 5:06pm
Subject: Re: Slayer espresso machine... what a disappointment!
 

JonR10 Said:

It may not be "full" pressure profiling, but the softened pressure ramps and the ability to manually alter (and adjust) the pressure profiles with greater articulation would apparently represent an advancement

Posted March 28, 2009 link

W0W - now let me get this straight: Off, switch halfway to Pre-infuse, then over to On, then back to Pre-infuse, and finally back to Off.

Jesus... I could train a monkey to do that.


maybe a slight advancement at best, yet hardly the "revolution" they speak of.


Again, How exactly does this differ from the GS3 paddle or the Synesso unit??
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