Posted Mon Jun 22, 2009, 2:18pm Subject: Re: Upgrade from Silvia to Expobar - Questions.
Hey Pierre, I'm in the process of upgrading from my Gaggia Baby to the QM Alexia since all I drink is a double shot, two or sometimes three a day. But before I get the QM I'll be getting a Macap MC4 or the M4 stepless grinder. From what I've read here and other sites is that the coffee is only as good as the grinder
Bellavance Senior Member Joined: 25 Dec 2001 Posts: 46 Location: Longueuil Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Mon Jun 22, 2009, 2:44pm Subject: Re: Upgrade from Silvia to Expobar - Questions.
Thanks to all who responded. Your advice is very useful to me.
I will also consider getting a better grinder... I never liked the LeLit anyway. its blade area is too small and often it will not fill with grains and the grinder will just run empty, until I shake it to help the coffee grains fill its blade area.
Bellavance Senior Member Joined: 25 Dec 2001 Posts: 46 Location: Longueuil Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Tue Jun 23, 2009, 1:08pm Subject: Re: Upgrade from Silvia to Expobar - Questions.
Are you saying that just upgrading from my LeLit PL53 grinder will give me better coffee than upgrading from my Silvia to an Alexia, while keeping my LeLit grinder?
Can this be true ? !!
Pierre
JmanEspresso Said:
The Lelit is a capable grinder, but there are many better grinders out there.
If you really dont ever steam milk, Id think about getting the Alexia with the PID... Not that the Lelit CANT handle the machine, but it can be much better... A Grinder improvement will show much more results in the cup then a machine improvement.
Zin1953 Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 1,695 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: no, Press Pot Drip: Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Tue Jun 23, 2009, 4:47pm Subject: Re: Upgrade from Silvia to Expobar - Questions.
Bellavance Said:
Are you saying that just upgrading from my LeLit PL53 grinder will give me better coffee than upgrading from my Silvia to an Alexia, while keeping my LeLit grinder?
I don't know what kind of grinder you have, but IF you don't have a great grinder, I'm tempted to suggest getting a Silvia v3 w/PID instead of a Quick Mill Alexia and then spend the money you save on a grinder upgrade. THAT will do more for your espresso quality than pairing a great machine with a weak grinder . . .
Is the Le'Lit a "weak grinder"? Well, in a word, "yes." It is not a bad grinder by any means. But "weak"? Sure. Don't believe me? Get a used Mazzer Super Jolly and stick with you old Silvia (before you give it to your daughter) and see/taste what I mean . . .
alanfrew Senior Member Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 484 Location: Melbourne Expertise: Professional
Posted Wed Jun 24, 2009, 3:24am Subject: Re: Upgrade from Silvia to Expobar - Questions.
Zin1953 Said:
As I said above, the
Is the Le'Lit a "weak grinder"? Well, in a word, "yes." It is not a bad grinder by any means. But "weak"? Sure. Don't believe me? Get a used Mazzer Super Jolly and stick with you old Silvia (before you give it to your daughter) and see/taste what I mean . . .
Hey, it's your money, but unless you're going to spend mega$ on the grinder the Lelit is as good as it gets. I've tested it against grinders more than 5 times the price and it performs at least as well, probably better overall in any home setup. However, it's NOISY vs most of the big commercials, and it's absolutely crap for anything other than espresso.
"Upgrading" the Lelit won't improve your coffee but might make things quieter at breakfast. Frankly, most "home baristas" could do a lot better just by improving their brewing techniques, but you will find very few people on internet forums recommending the sort of hard work it takes to be a really good barista. After all, that doesn't cost anything but time, and no bragging rights are involved.
Zin1953 Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 1,695 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: no, Press Pot Drip: Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Wed Jun 24, 2009, 5:35am Subject: Le'Lit
Actually, Alan, I agree with you. Let me take the word "weak" back. (I borrowed it from Pierre anyway.) But certainly someone who was (originally) thinking of spending $2K on a DB machine just to make espresso (virtually no milk drinks) and is using a Le'Lit would be better served spending a sizable portion of that money on a grinder upgrade.
As for technique . . . don't you know that old line: How do you get to the WBC? Practice, practice, practice!;^)
* * * * *
Pierre, Alan is quite right about technique. The biggest, single improvement I ever made was when I switched from a Mazzer Mini grinder to a Cimbali Max Hybrid. But that said, the greatest overall improvement to the quality of my espresso, cappuccino, and latte drinks has been the improvement in technique, and the consistency I continually strive to maintain . . .
Are my drinks perfect? Far from it. But they are a damned sight better than they were prior to joining this forum. Yes, I have improved the quality of my equipment in my home (and done so significantly), but I know that without the improvements I've made in my technique, having improved the equipment -- heck, having the greatest machine and grinder in the world -- would still produce a mediocre cup . . .
Bellavance Senior Member Joined: 25 Dec 2001 Posts: 46 Location: Longueuil Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Wed Jun 24, 2009, 5:45am Subject: Re: Upgrade from Silvia to Expobar - Questions.
Alan and Jason,
Thanks for your help.
I'll keep my almost new LeLit (I've removed the small plastic cap over the burrs to help coffee go down the chute) and will probably buy the Alexia with PID, once I agree with paying so much for a "coffee machine".
Where can I read a little more about simple but efficient espresso technique?
Pierre
alanfrew Said:
Hey, it's your money, but unless you're going to spend mega$ on the grinder the Lelit is as good as it gets. I've tested it against grinders more than 5 times the price and it performs at least as well, probably better overall in any home setup. However, it's NOISY vs most of the big commercials, and it's absolutely crap for anything other than espresso.
"Upgrading" the Lelit won't improve your coffee but might make things quieter at breakfast. Frankly, most "home baristas" could do a lot better just by improving their brewing techniques, but you will find very few people on internet forums recommending the sort of hard work it takes to be a really good barista. After all, that doesn't cost anything but time, and no bragging rights are involved.
If that's the case and you want an HX the Salvatore One Black will work, it is about an half inch shorter than the Silvia. If you only drink straight shots of espresso I would keep the Silvia and install a PID. I regularly use both machines and either one will serve you well. Ed
Zin1953 Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 1,695 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: no, Press Pot Drip: Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Wed Jun 24, 2009, 6:02am Subject: Re: Upgrade from Silvia to Expobar - Questions.
Pierre,
The Italians have the "Four M's"
La Macchina (the machine)
La Macinadosatore (the grind and dose)
La Miscela (the blend of coffee)
La Mano (the hand of the barista or operator)
Others may disagree in the order of importance, or suggest that they are all of equal importance, but for me, I find that this list is in increasing order of importance. After all, there are any number of machines that are capable, but the grinder is often the weak spot in equipment, and without a quality grinder, the machine is useless. The beans must be fresh and of sufficient quality, but -- again -- if the person making the coffee/using the equipment doesn't have the technique, all is lost . . .
I was serious when I said "practice, practice, practice." There are certainly some books, videos, and DVDs our there -- as well as YouTube and the like -- but the best information I've received is here and on Home-Barista.com. Indeed, if you haven't already, you may wish to read through some of the "How To's" on HB. (I know you're a member there, too.) That said, you should also peruse the "Q&A" forum here, and the "Tips and Techniques" forum there -- feel free to ask questions. And if you really "get the bug," there are hands-on classes available (at least here in the States, and I'm sure there are in Canada, too) . . .
Bellavance Senior Member Joined: 25 Dec 2001 Posts: 46 Location: Longueuil Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Wed Jun 24, 2009, 7:35am Subject: Re: Upgrade from Silvia to Expobar - Questions.
I've later determined that I could remove a molding, and would then have 18 1/4 inches of vertical clearance. I'll have to check if this is enough, to be able to put cups on top of the machine.
RE: Your suggestion: I don't know if adding a PID to my Silvia would give me as good coffee as getting the Alexia with a PID.
Pierre
onthego Said:
If that's the case and you want an HX the Salvatore One Black will work, it is about an half inch shorter than the Silvia. If you only drink straight shots of espresso I would keep the Silvia and install a PID. I regularly use both machines and either one will serve you well. Ed
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