MarkR Senior Member Joined: 30 Apr 2008 Posts: 9 Location: Crested Butte, CO Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Coffee Grinder: rossi rr45
Posted Thu May 28, 2009, 11:10pm Subject: Correct dose not filling my basket
So I finally got my hands on a scale to see where I'm at dose-wise, as I was suspicious that I was overdosing. I was more than right: a 16 gram dose doesn't even fill my basket. I tried stirring it up a bit and then carefully leveling it, but still can't get it to evenly full.
So here are the theories:
Maybe I have a triple basket??? I got the machine (gaggia coffee) used, so just assumed it was a double.
My grinder (Rossi RR45) grinds it really dense, and I have to fluff it up somehow.
I should just dose closer to 17 grams to fill the basket.
Posted Fri May 29, 2009, 3:26am Subject: Re: Correct dose not filling my basket
Hi Mark, Do whatever works best for YOU. Experiment with different doses, etc. If it helps, I commonly dose 20g in a double basket (this was our "standard" for the grinder shootout)
Posted Fri May 29, 2009, 4:52am Subject: Re: Correct dose not filling my basket
Hi Mark,
No you're not crazy! ;-)
You've made the observation that a lot of folks have. You can volume dose like Jon indicates or you can find ways to make a good distribution below the rim of the basket or just overfill, level than tamp. I've made very good espresso both ways.
Posted Fri May 29, 2009, 6:32am Subject: Re: Correct dose not filling my basket
Yeap. Personally, I like it more when I fill up about 3/4 way. Grinding finer (to compensate) and dosing less have made me like many more blends. The flavor is more clear and balanced. This way I can drink and enjoy several cups :) Lately, I haven't weighted the coffee and prefer to use visual references. I fill up to the line (not the top) and after tamping, the puck is about 1/4 inch bellow the line. The puck comes out wetter, like using a single basket, the body is thinner, but all it matters is the flavor and getting what you like
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,099 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Fri May 29, 2009, 6:53am Subject: Re: Correct dose not filling my basket
Mark, I had a Gaggia Coffee for 20+ years, and never had a scale -- so that's of no help whatsoever! But keep in mind that first and foremost, you need to
Secondly, remember that you don't want the (dry) coffee in direct contact with the screen. Try this: dose your coffee into your basket and tamp as you normally do, but before locking the portafilter into place, place a nickel on top of the coffee; lock the pf into place as usual, but don't pull a shot! -- just remove the portafilter and look at the top of the puck. You should barely see the indent, if any, from the nickel . . .
Third, while some machines are more finicky about "updosing," I always found my Gaggia to be very forgiving, so --
Is it a bottomless PF? If it's a stock gaggia PF then, at least on mine, a triple basket does not quite fit right, so your assumption is probably correct.
Posted Fri May 29, 2009, 1:36pm Subject: Re: Correct dose not filling my basket
MarkR Said:
So I finally got my hands on a scale to see where I'm at dose-wise, as I was suspicious that I was overdosing. I was more than right: a 16 gram dose doesn't even fill my basket. I tried stirring it up a bit and then carefully leveling it, but still can't get it to evenly full.
Hi Mark. Several months ago I weighed the "natural" dose capacity of a bunch of filter baskets (results here). Double baskets from La Marzocco, La Spaziale, QuickMill, and Synesso all held 17-19g, without any attempt at updosing. YMMV but it's clear that most double baskets hold well over 14g of ground coffee.
canadianpuck Senior Member Joined: 10 Jun 2008 Posts: 6 Location: canada Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Quickmill Vetrano Grinder: Macap M4
Posted Tue Jul 21, 2009, 8:40am Subject: Re: Correct dose not filling my basket
This question is for RapidCoffee, I too own a quickmill vertrano and I'm having trouble dosing as heavily as I'd like with the stock quickmill baskets. The screen sits low so I can't updose the way I'd like to try. I have read that you have both the 18g and 14g baskets and I was wondering if you knew which you would recommend for the stock quickmill portafilter. Will the 18g fit without requiring a naked portafilter because this might offer me a little more puck clearance? Perhaps a little off topic but I was unable to PM you. Thanks much for your help.
Jmanespresso Senior Member Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 2,108 Location: Westchester NY Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Alex Duetto II Grinder: Compak K10 - Vario Vac Pot: Yama-SY5/SY8/TCA5 Drip: V60, Beehouse, CCD Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Tue Jul 21, 2009, 1:11pm Subject: Re: Correct dose not filling my basket
CanadianPuck,
Hey, I dont have a Vetrano, but I have an Anita.. More or less the same with a different water setup/pump. Grouphead is the same.
For using a spouted PF, the "biggest" baskets I have found are the Ridgless doubles. EPNW has them, and they fit into a normal size spouted PF without a problem. I can get 21 grams in there no problem, and 22grs if I smash it into the screen, which Im not a fan of doing, Lol.
Another solution is either a bottomless/naked PF. Any kind, will fit any basket you like, as long as its the right diameter. OR, if you're not a fan of bottomless PF's, the La Marzocco PFs will fit a triple basket without being bottomless. Rancilio makes a "Triple PF" also, which doesnt need to be naked to fit a larger basket. My two favorite triple baskets, are the La MArzocco 21gr basket. Its got a SLIGHT ridge, but a 58mm tamp fits no problem, and its got straight walls. EPNW and Chris Coffee sells them, among others Im sure. Also, the 18gr Synesso Basket is great as well. Its bigger then a double, but smaller then the LM 21gr, and its more forgiving then the LM as well. Looks just like a double basket, but a bit taller, and no ridge.
To the OP,
For the sake of being redundant on purpose, do what works for you! :). The nickel trick that Zin1953 mentioned will help you gauge the dose. If you have trouble with clumping, try the Wiess Distribution Technique(WDT). Works like a charm. Aside from de-clumping, it also gives a perfect distribution. I use it every time, and if done properly, its like insurance for great shots every time. If you have the stock PF, a triple basket doesnt fit. You can probably get ~19grs without a problem if its the stock basket.. I have a little trouble getting 20 in there with some coffees, but, as Jason noted about his Gaggia, my Gaggia also doesnt mind being updosed either. Since you have a scale, start at, say, 18grs, and keep going up using the nickel test until you find your absolute max dose. With the stock double basket on the gaggia, I dont does more then 18grs.. But If I use a synesso double, I can get about 22gr in there.
Follow Your Bliss
Coffee makes your constantly overcome your prejudices and re-evaluate your own "received wisdoms" when it comes to judging cup flavors. -Tom Owen, SweetMarias
Posted Tue Jul 21, 2009, 10:21pm Subject: Re: Correct dose not filling my basket
canadianpuck Said:
This question is for RapidCoffee, I too own a quickmill vertrano and I'm having trouble dosing as heavily as I'd like with the stock quickmill baskets. The screen sits low so I can't updose the way I'd like to try. I have read that you have both the 18g and 14g baskets and I was wondering if you knew which you would recommend for the stock quickmill portafilter. Will the 18g fit without requiring a naked portafilter because this might offer me a little more puck clearance?
First, I'm a big fan of ridgeless baskets. Go ridgeless, you won't regret it.
Second, I pull far more doubles than triples. Both the 14g and 18g Synesso baskets fit the regular PF, but I have a strong preference for the smaller 14g ridgeless basket. The 18g basket is as much a small triple as a large double.
Third, I'll echo the suggestion that you get a bottomless PF; not to accomodate larger basket sizes, but for the terrific visual feedback.
Finally, I've never had any trouble updosing on the Vetrano. In general, E61 groups seems to updose well.
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